Analyse your own improvs...

[britishgeetah]

Analyse your own improvs...
Well, I'm mainly posting this so I can get a view of improving from another guitarist's point of view... What I mean, is how do you first go at a solo when just learned the chord progression? Do you find the closest matching scale/mode on the fret board according to position (like there's a G chord, you visualize the G Ionian or Mixolydian scale pattern at the 3rd fret), or do you play all over the fretboard? I'm always used to using the memorized scale patterns and I really want to break free from the "boxes" I solo within. I don't mean play chromatically (I do that too), but get used to playing without stock licks I learned previously.

Here's a chord progression from a backing track I got...

F/G C/G G7 G7
F/G C/G G7 G7
Bb/C F/C C7 C7
Bb/C F/C C7 C7

It's a light jazzy/bluesy vamp in G Major with the first 8 bars having a G pedal tone and rest with a C pedal tone.

I wanna hear how you guys would go about a solo over that...what intervals, harmonic ideas etc. would you use?

I obviously don't want an essay or recording or tab of your solo, just wondering what other guitarists think in improving...

[JohnnyGuitar]

When I started playing jazz I tried to change scales with chord changes or just arrpegio on the chords. It was boring and I felt it didn't represent me. So I've started adding notes to basic pentatonic patterns until my playing. It worked. After a while my playing became harder to define in terms of scales... most of the time I'm not sure of what I'm doing...

BTW,

It's more of a Tips and Clips or Sound room thread IMO.

[LJ King]

It helps to look at your dominant 7ths. A dominant 7th can only appear in a single major key - and it will be the fifth of that key.

For example, the first two lines of the progression are the same but they include a G7. A G7 can only occur in the scale of C major. F major, which would be the fourth of the C major scale is the first chord. The second chord is C major. So from the perspective of C major, it is a 4-1-5-5 progression.

The G pedal tone on the first two chords is also a clue, the G being the fifth of C major. G is also a normal chord tone with G7 and C major, but is being extended to the F major.

So what seems to be appropriate for playing over this part of the progression would be G mixolydian mode. This maintains the overall "G" feel of the progression. The notes would be C major starting on G - G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G.

The next two chord lines is essentially the same 4-1-5-5 progression, but now we have changed to the F major key - per the same reasoning for the first two lines - C7 can only occur in the scale of F Major. Since the C pedal tone is the dominant factor here, C mixolydian would be appropriate which would be F major starting on C - C, D, E, F, G, A, Bb C.

You might take note (no pun intended) that the only different note between the common notes is the alternation between B and Bb.

(Gee, I really hope I got that mixolydian mode name right!! )

[GuitarStv]

It helps to look at your dominant 7ths. A dominant 7th can only appear in a single major key - and it will be the fifth of that key.

For example, the first two lines of the progression are the same but they include a G7. A G7 can only occur in the scale of C major. F major, which would be the fourth of the C major scale is the first chord. The second chord is C major. So from the perspective of C major, it is a 4-1-5-5 progression.

The G pedal tone on the first two chords is also a clue, the G being the fifth of C major. G is also a normal chord tone with G7 and C major, but is being extended to the F major.

So what seems to be appropriate for playing over this part of the progression would be G mixolydian mode. This maintains the overall "G" feel of the progression. The notes would be C major starting on G - G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G.

The next two chord lines is essentially the same 4-1-5-5 progression, but now we have changed to the F major key - per the same reasoning for the first two lines - C7 can only occur in the scale of F Major. Since the C pedal tone is the dominant factor here, C mixolydian would be appropriate which would be F major starting on C - C, D, E, F, G, A, Bb C.

You might take note (no pun intended) that the only different note between the common notes is the alternation between B and Bb.

(Gee, I really hope I got that mixolydian mode name right!! )

That's a great way of analyzing a chord progression . . . I'd just like to add though that the style of music will also dictate the way that you solo over the progression. (You might have a I7 - IV7 - V7 blues progression, but most people will use the same minor pentatonic/blues scale over the progression for a bluesy sound - even though it has bad notes for the chords that it's going over).

Personally, for most progressions that I'm going to improv over I'll find chord tones to fit the chords being played over. Then I'll add extensions (2, 4ths, 6ths, 7ths) to the chord tones as I go along, depending on what sounds nice . . . If the progression is blasting along too quickly, I'll try to pick a scale (built of chord tones) that will fit over a grouping of chords so that I have more time to think.

[Robbiedbee]

The way I look at it, if I'm playing if a key, say, A, I'd first play a couple of A notes. I'd make them musical and stuff, with vibrato or whatever. Then I'd play a couple of notes around it. Say, a lick of A B G A, in like hammer ons and pull offs, then as I get 'comfortable' with those notes, I'd play a bit futher up and down the scale, until I can make long runs of the scale.

It's quite a weird way of looking at it, but doing it methodically means you can find out what doesn't work and what does. I don't really do this all the time, but it's an approach. Mix this with a few 'stock licks' and you can do something reasonably impressive.

[Marinblues]

There is probably more information here than you need, but this is a good link to check out:

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/index.html

Marin

[Osensei]

Basically the whole progression consists of only two chords. G7 and C7. The pedal tone forms 11th and 13th chords like so:

F/G C/G G7 G7 = G11 G13 G7 G7

Likewise:

Bb/C F/C C7 C7 = C11 C13 C7 C7

So treat them like you do all of your dom 7th chords, which ever method you choose. But without specifying a style or having a melody (head) to listen to, I dare not venture further. Because style and rhythmic feel are just as important as note choice. Without them, modes or note choice are irrelavent. Cuz rhytmic groove will make the most nonsensical chromatic licks hot! Check this out to see what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnhMVrOOGZU

[Robbiedbee]

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/index.html

No wonder you're bloody good!

Great link!

[britishgeetah]

Nice info guys...

Marinband, I love your blues playing....one of the best guitarists here!

How do you go about soloing? Any tips to share?

[Marinblues]

Nice info guys...

Marinband, I love your blues playing....one of the best guitarists here!

How do you go about soloing? Any tips to share?

Not much....just the usual things:

- learn the scales
- learn the scale with respect to the chords
- forget the scales and think of the notes in terms of how they relate to a chord
- love your guitar
- play, play, play....
- don't try to sound like anyone else.
- play what you want and not what (you may think) others want you to.
- enjoy yourself

thanks

M.

[tone4days]

There is probably more information here than you need, but this is a good link to check out:

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/index.html

Marin

lotsa good stuff there

although i had to laugh because he labels 'kenny g' as 'fusion'

[Osensei]

Nice info guys...

Marinband, I love your blues playing....one of the best guitarists here!

How do you go about soloing? Any tips to share?

My esteem collegue MarinBlues is a testiment to the wonders that phrasing can do. I'm sure everyone will agree that improvisation is an excercise in mutitasking. You have to know what to play, but you'll never sound worth crap until you figure out how to play the notes that you know you should play. Phrasing is just as important as other aspects.

Modes and arpeggios are science, phrasing is religion!