Wow...Where Do I Start?? Far Out Man.. I Had No Idea

[LesStrat]

New rules. Sad that we couldn't follow the old rules. Sadder still that more restrictions will be imposed as a result.

But I understand.

Robert, I do not envy you or the other admins in your role. I would probably be more like Zerb and everyone would be

[LunaticFringe]

Robert S - Why no hot chicks with pics threads? Suprisingly, I found these types of threads to be the most respectful on the forum. Its the 1 topic we basically all agree on. Collectively, we all participate and have a good laff. I've never seen anyone get out of line or say anything derogitory... Do we have to ban my favorite topic?

Maybe we'll get some real chicks on here as a result. That would be good.

[LesStrat]

Can real chicks post hot pics of themselves? Jus' wonderin'

[BillG3]

I've been a member of this forum for a long time. I'm sorry to see where this whole thing has lead to. What it boils down to is a lot of us, I include myself, don't exercise common sense, self-discipline, and respect.

I particularly will hate to see religious topics banned because, done respectfully, these discussions bring out some particularly essential guidelines for life and relationships. But religion and politics will always be the most heated of subjects because they strike so close to the heart and the hurt. And that's where most people lose it. Selah. (Pause and reflect upon this.)

External constraints do not change the internal workings of people. It does make things more black and white and easier to enforce. The forum's rules were originally to guide us in the spirit of how to function together. Laws are added to "better" define and inform us of the boundaries most of us know and sometimes choose to ignore anyway.

I believe some of the other topics are carried way too far and tend to violate the family atmosphere much more than I care for. (My opinion.)

Jolly is Jolly. I've talked with him before. He actually makes me uncomfortable because he is so unrestrained and dare I say unpolished. But that doesn't make me dislike him or disrespect him. He is honestly himself. I can trust him to say what he thinks.

And the admins here, including Robert, have always tended to err on the side of leniency, sometimes too much so. They have a tough job and, as far as I can tell, have done it very well.

I belong to a number of forums but this is the one I tend to gravitate to most. I hope we can deal with our problems more maturely in the future and allow some of the pending new rules to be deemed unnecessary, at least, maybe after a cooling off period.

Bill

[Gr8Scott]

i gotta admit, i am still confused about something that jolly isnt addressing ... i mean, we get that he never meant no harm and he loves and respects everybody (?) and that he is 'taking his punishment like a man' .. and all that is well and good ...

but i am not sure that even my third rereading of his posts on this thread leaves me to know whether he is going to come back after his penalty and change his behaviour or if he is just gonna come back and 'just be jolly' ... it seems like he takes great pride in always just 'being himself' .. he explicitly said that he doesn't apologize for anything he said ... i cant tell if he learned anything other than being reminded that sometimes some people dont appreciate some of the things he has to say even if most times most of us enjoy most of what he has to say .. which he seems ok with because everybody's different .. i didnt see the part where he said 'i know now that what i did was wrong and i shouldnt have done it and i apologize and i wont do it when i come back' ... in fact, i see an awful lot to the opposite - thats its just a matter of taste and he is ok with everyone who takes him or leaves him ...

same goes for others who earned infraction points during this episode ... has anyone else who broke the rules learned anything ... if so, what?

With all due respect, is it your place to ask these questions? I could understand an admin or Evan or Seymour asking something like this, but not you or I. If you or I ask the above questions, by default we take on the role of teacher or the superior and yet we are all users of equal standing are we not?..

[tone4days]

i think it is the place of anyone on the forum to contribute to the discussion (comments, questions, observations, etc) about our community standards and lessons learned from such a widely participated in episode ... jolly posted to all of us to start this thread, which opens it for general discussion ... we are all teachers ... we are all students .. no one is superior, a priori ... we rise and fall on our own merits .. i disagree that we are all equal in standing .. some have had their privileges reduced because their behavior was 'lesser'

and this kinda touches on the 'forgiveness' thread ... forgiveness is all well and good - i'm all for it .. but i do not see all of the other associated components of civil behaviour ... we do not see confession (rather we see excuses and even justification), we do not see apology/contrition (in fact, we see the explicit denial of same) ... we do see some (but not all?) of the (appropriate) punishment ...

it's just not a complete experience until all the parts are in place - we are left with a vague aftereffect where in our rush to 'get over' it and 'put it behind us' we do not really finish it

t4d

[BigAlTheBird]

I disagree. If the admins can ban me from one of my very favorite hobbies, then they are vastly superior.

[Gr8Scott]

i think it is the place of anyone on the forum to contribute to the discussion about our community standards and lessons learned from such a widely participated in episode ... jolly posted to all of us to start this thread, which opens it for general discussion ... we are all teachers ... we are all students .. no one is superior, a priori ... we rise and fall on our own merits

So using that logic... If someone brings up a thread about his wife, I'm free to discuss her sweet knockers in great detail and it's not inappropriate because he brought her up in the first place and she's fair game now? SWEET!!!

[tone4days]

So using that logic... If someone brings up a thread about his wife, I'm free to discuss her sweet knockers in great detail and it's not inappropriate because he brought her up in the first place and she's fair game now? SWEET!!!

no, that would be restricted under different aspects of the rules of behaviour, let alone truly boorish and rude

but i think you know that

and fortunately, my bringing up a rebuttal to jolly's thread-starting 'day in the court of forum opinion' was not analogous to rudely discussing a man's wife

[Gr8Scott]

Kidding aside, when you ask someone if they've learned their lesson and you are not the person ADMINISTERING the lesson, you are often considered to be gloating. That's how this looks to me and though it's not behaving boorishly per se, it's equally unflattering behavior. If you think it's cool then by all means continue.

[tone4days]

sorry you see it as gloating .. that is an inference that you chose to draw from my words, not an implication that i made explicitly or indirectly .. further, to gloat would presuppose that i took some measure of joy in the situation, which i do not

this is what happens when someone chooses to not address the textual words and specific items in a post, but rather respond to their (mistaken) impression of intent .. no worries, mistakes happen

note also, it matters not who is administering the lesson nearly as much as it matters on who's behalf the lesson was administered ... the lesson was administered on behalf of the community of which i am a member .. i have standing ... i do not think it is 'cool' per se as much as i think it is constructive and necessary

[Luís]

I would think this thread has ran it's course. We should all learn to acknowledge that and let them die, save for the endless threads... unless someone has a SERIOUS problem with that. I'm sure someone does...

[Luke Duke]

Jolly you have me and D!ck's phone #'s, give us a ring man.

Luke

[Budweiser]

Robert S will be returning from the zoo only to find this zoo. LOL!

[kjrocks]

Never met Jolly, but I like him even more.

[devastone]

t4d, I have to agree with Scott, you seem to be taking this on a too personal level. As Robert said, there will be new rules and stricter enforcement in place before Jolly returns, at that point, Jolly or anyone else crossing the line will have to deal with the consequences. So, if he returns as "good ole Jolly" or not, he has to stay within the same boundaries as everyone else. I also think he tried to make it clear that his words weren't malicious in intent.

My <$0.02, but it's not worth arguing over.

[tone4days]

thanks for the note devastone

i see it as the exact opposite of personal .. it is communal .. and about the standards that we have to live up to publicly ... and our responsibilities to each other when we screw up .. it is about community

its just not encouraging to see someone refuse to admit wrongdoing, refuse to apologize, make alot of excuses and justifications, take his punishment, and think its 'over' .. and this is about more than just jolly - jolly is just the one who publicly posted a mulit-part/multi-hundred word screed about it ...

we'll have to see what happens - no sense conjecturing over it now

t4d

[Ez74]

I don't see why there has to be new rules. If something would have been done about Jolly's racial posts along time ago this wouldn't be a problem now. Seafoamer gets banned for saying the "f" word but I guess he wasn't an admins friend.

[tone4days]

I don't see why there has to be new rules. If something would have been done about Jolly's racial posts along time ago this wouldn't be a problem now. Seafoamer gets banned for saying the "f" word but I guess he wasn't an admins friend.

doesnt matter if you or i 'see why' there have to be new rules ... it is simply our host's prerogative and we can choose to stay and live by them, stay and break them and suffer the consequences, or leave the forum

jolly isnt the only one who is offensive racially and shouldve been dealt with sooner

racial offensiveness is not the only problem that shouldve been dealt with sooner

but they are being dealt with now - all we can do is move forward with better choices and hope for the best

[Mephis]

In the very near future there will be a new list of rules including no religious topics, no more sexuality discussions, no more chick pics and a few other things as well. Not because there is anything wrong with discussing those topics but because some of us cannot discuss them respectfully. We are also going to put an end to much of the trollish behaviors seen on this board and the tone of this board will look a lot like that of the other boards on this site.

Well it's about time!

Maybe things will be looking up for this board as the trolls are slowly weeded out 1 by 1, and it will return to the community of friendships and great knowlage.

i gotta admit, i am still confused about something that jolly isnt addressing ... i mean, we get that he never meant no harm and he loves and respects everybody (?) and that he is 'taking his punishment like a man' .. and all that is well and good ...

but i am not sure that even my third rereading of his posts on this thread leaves me to know whether he is going to come back after his penalty and change his behaviour or if he is just gonna come back and 'just be jolly' ... it seems like he takes great pride in always just 'being himself' .. he explicitly said that he doesn't apologize for anything he said ... i cant tell if he learned anything other than being reminded that sometimes some people dont appreciate some of the things he has to say even if most times most of us enjoy most of what he has to say .. which he seems ok with because everybody's different .. i didnt see the part where he said 'i know now that what i did was wrong and i shouldnt have done it and i apologize and i wont do it when i come back' ... in fact, i see an awful lot to the opposite - thats its just a matter of taste and he is ok with everyone who takes him or leaves him ...

Why doesn't he apologize? Because he knows he isn't a racist, and the comment he made was not in hate. He can't apologize for the people who ran with his comment and started thread after thread. I really don't think he owes anyone an apology, but I do believe the people who stired the pot owe the community an apology. They could have just reported the post and ignored it, sparing us all of this mess.

It's still a simple matter of an off color comment at the wrong time infront of a bunch of people who didn't understand it or had ill feelings against him and used it as ammunition. Considering that everyone knows where Jolly stands, it's obviously one more than the other.

In all honesty, Jolly gave something far more "real" and meaningful than a simple apology.