Going to the Dark Side. Dimarzios. %(

[heymcz]

Fellas, I just got my guitar back with my Custom Shop pickups installed, and I am not blown away. I am actually disheartened, in fact, and ready to jump ship for the dark side...put in a set of DiMarzios and be done with it. I'll try the magnet swaps, etc., but somehow I think it won't work. I'll spare you the details of what I actually got and why it doesn't work in my Ibanez. Just help me figure out what I'm going to do going forward. (Hangs head in shame). I like Alnico V, hot sounding. I can deal with ceramic if it's organic like a Custom. My guitar is brighter than ****.

Please let me know if you can directly compare Breed Bridge vs. Super Distortion bridge, and what they sound like compared to the Duncan line, which I know pretty well. Also, Breed neck, Evo neck, what else should I consider? I want full sounding E.Q. with less high end. Power. Rawk. AC/DC, Early Lynch Mob, the Who, etc. Anything else I should consider? I hate the Tone Zone. Burned me on the **** company in the first place.

Thanks for your help. I'll go switch my lightsaber to red now.

[jeremy]

dont let the door hit ya on the way out

j/k

what custom shop stuff did you get and why dont you like it? is the guitar in question the sz520?

[barbarianbrute]

the breed is going to be similar to the tone zone except with more midrange. the tone zone is kind of bottom heavy and the breed will be too. to get a good sound with either of those pups, i think it's going to depend a lot on your eq. to me, dimarzios seem to sound better mid-scooped. i usually play with a lot of mids on my amp, so go figure.

the breed is just slightly more articulate than the tz, but you're probably going to like the super distortion a lot more. it has a better classic metal/rock tone that you'll like and it's a little more balanced sounding IMO. for a ceramic it's very organic sounding. personally i like it better than any ceramic duncan, but that might just be me.

the evolution is a nice pup too and has some great qualities, but i prefer the super distortion. i had the evolution in my strat and it wasn't bright at all. it was pretty nice.

if i'm not mistaken, the sz520 is a mohogany body with slightly compressed midrange. maybe that's why you don't like your current pickup selection. you'll probably be happy with the super distortion, but maybe a custom custom or custom 5 might be in your interests too if you're worried about brightness

[heymcz]

dont let the door hit ya on the way out

j/k

what custom shop stuff did you get and why dont you like it? is the guitar in question the sz520?

Heh, heh, good one....I gots an overwound Custom and a JB for the neck. The overwound Custom is actually a bit shrill and tinny...the regular one was much better in comparison. Sounds a bit like the intro to "Wish You Were Here" with the radio filter on, though I worked with the height, polepieces, and tone knob all afternoon. The JB for the neck, well, I figured I had to give it a try, since a few guys on here swear by it. I wouldn't recommend it myself.

Yeah, this is the SZ520...I shoulda kept the regular Custom in there, I got some good tones out of this one. The Full Shred wasn't that bad, either...I MAY try swapping the magnets, yeilding a C5/Dist. lite, BUT I've already had both those in this beast at various points. Along with A2Pro, PGn, '59n, CC, EVH, C8, S. Demon, etc. Bridge is tremspaced, neck isn't, so that kills swapping the coils...

I think I've more or less exhausted my options in the Duncan line. My ideal would be a very natural, full E.Q. Alnico V hot humbucker, which is what the DMZ Breed claims to be...second best would be ceramic....I can't help it, but Alnico II just sounds odd to me for hard rock and metal. And as you all know, I'm just very particular....yes, I LOVE the guitar and I WILL make it work somehow...heck, even an X2N is looking good at this point....

[heymcz]

the breed is going to be similar to the tone zone except with more midrange. the tone zone is kind of bottom heavy and the breed will be too. to get a good sound with either of those pups, i think it's going to depend a lot on your eq. to me, dimarzios seem to sound better mid-scooped. i usually play with a lot of mids on my amp, so go figure.

the breed is just slightly more articulate than the tz, but you're probably going to like the super distortion a lot more. it has a better classic metal/rock tone that you'll like and it's a little more balanced sounding IMO. for a ceramic it's very organic sounding. personally i like it better than any ceramic duncan, but that might just be me.

the evolution is a nice pup too and has some great qualities, but i prefer the super distortion. i had the evolution in my strat and it wasn't bright at all. it was pretty nice.

if i'm not mistaken, the sz520 is a mohogany body with slightly compressed midrange. maybe that's why you don't like your current pickup selection. you'll probably be happy with the super distortion, but maybe a custom custom or custom 5 might be in your interests too if you're worried about brightness

Thanks for the tips...I have had both a CC and a C5 in this beast already...CC was all mids and C5 had none. The closest I've come to getting a good sound of it was a Full Shred with the Tone rolled way back, and a Custom with the tone rolled back a tiny bit. I want something like a cross between those two. Hot A5 that's not a JB...I thought the Breed would be less "flabby" than the Tone Zone. On the Breed, would you say that there were more upper mids (like a Custom) middy mids (like a CC) or more lower mids (like an FS)?

The SZ is mahogany with a really thick maple cap. It's all kinds of bright, and I've had a bunch of things in there already. Doesn't seem to have a lot of mids on its own (then again, I used to own a Gibson LP, so I'm spoilt in that regard.) I'm kind of thinking that I just need to start exploring a different palette and see if something sticks.

[uOpt]

So you didn't try a Dimarzio yet?

Have you considered that the guitar just doesn't deliver the tone you want, no matter how well it plays and sounds?

[heymcz]

So you didn't try a Dimarzio yet?

Have you considered that the guitar just doesn't deliver the tone you want, no matter how well it plays and sounds?

I've been stuck on this whole "Duncan" thing for a while.

But yeah, I am a real butthead when it comes to giving up. I've gotten some decent tones out of it with Custom and Full Shred, maybe '59n for solos. So it's probably me just being too picky.

No DiMarzios in it so far, and that's why I want to give them a try despite my previous experiences with a Tone(less) Zone.

[kjrocks]

How about your amp? I know I went through a lot of pickups in the last few years and many didnt quite do it. I finally tried a different speaker in my amp and that made all the difference. I think many of the pickups I tried I would have liked much better with this amp now. My approach now is, get your amp tone the way you want it first than fine tune with pickups. You will never get as drastic a change from some pickups as speakers.

[heymcz]

How about your amp? I know I went through a lot of pickups in the last few years and many didnt quite do it. I finally tried a different speaker in my amp and that made all the difference. I think many of the pickups I tried I would have liked much better with this amp now. My approach now is, get your amp tone the way you want it first than fine tune with pickups. You will never get as drastic a change from some pickups as speakers.

KJ, good advice, thanks! But I actually do have several amps that I can run through, plus I check out the signal going clean into my recording system with no coloration.

[FAC]

AC/DC, Early Lynch Mob, the Who, etc. Anything else I should consider?

I'm not sure if this answers your question, per se, but when I think of two of those bands (AC/DC and the Who), I think of Gretsch (rhythm for AC/DC and Pete Townshend in the studio...he used a Gretsch on A LOT of those classic songs).

How about trying a Gretsch style pickup? I think TV Jones has a drop in replacement for a Humbucker routed guitar...I've never tried them, but you seem to have tried everything else.

Just a thought...

[TimmyPage]

So you didn't try a Dimarzio yet?

Have you considered that the guitar just doesn't deliver the tone you want, no matter how well it plays and sounds?

Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Sometimes, no matter how hard you try or work at it, you just cant squeeze 'that' tone out of a certain guitar.

[FAC]

Have you considered that the guitar just doesn't deliver the tone you want, no matter how well it plays and sounds?

This had crossed my mind, too...I was just trying to be positive, hence, the Gretsch suggestion given those bands and the possibility that any gibson-based humbucker might not get there...

[pinto79]

D Sonic Bridge, Air Norton Neck.

The Air Norton is possibly the best neck pickup ever made.

[JohnnyGuitar]

I think I'm on the side of the guys who think that there might be other factors that effect your tone.
How does the guitar sound like with the different pickups you've tried? what's missing?

[Manachild]

D Sonic Bridge, Air Norton Neck.

The Air Norton is possibly the best neck pickup ever made.

+1 D sonic is an awesome pickup and sounds great in standard tuning also even tho its marketed as a drop tuned pickup.

[BloodRose]

HMMMM... you are looking for a big sound, hot alnico v, more organic than a tone zone. Im hearing Blues Saraceno trembucker. (PATB3) It had a huge sound, not mid focused , but big and full in the mids. It has a big chunk, but solos well, and isnt rated a hot pickup but drives an amp very nicely..

[theodie]

Dimarzios sound good in Basswood. They sound like ass without mojo in anything else in most cases.

Ibanez=Dimarzio in alot of cases.

[75lespaul]

The only dimarzio pickups I have experience with are the SD, the Super 2 and the X2n. If you're looking for something like the AC/DC, Who sound, I don't think any of those pickups would be for you. The Super Distortion IS one of my favorite rock pickups, but more for stuff where there are more power chords than chords, like some older Aerosmith, Priest, Maiden etc. The closest I ever got to mimicing the sounds you mentioned--and it was really close--is with my "SG" that has a Brobucker in the bridge. With my little Univox U45B it nails it, and through my Marshalls it is really, really close.

It just may be the guitar. I've got a Jackson DK2 where I wanted the neck and middle to sound like my strat. I tried the original Duncan Designed (pulled them really quick), Classic Stacks (which are in there now), Mooretone Vintage, which are my favorite strat pickups so far, and MIM strat pickups that sounded great in the MIM strat. Nothing sounded like a real Fender strat. The body wood is supposedly Alder, got a rosewood board, maple neck I believe--just can't get that sound. The Stacks got closest but sometimes it really is just the guitar. That Brobucker sounds incredible in my two guitars, but it does sound different in each. The SG and a 73 Les Paul Deluxe.

Hope this helps.

[devastone]

I don't agree that the Breed is very similar to the TZ, the TZ was muddy in most of the guitars I tried it in, with the exception of one. The Breed is very smooth and polite with tight lows, kinda dark highs, but still has great harmonics. That also describes the Super 3, except it has more output and more attitude.

The SZs are mahogany IIRC, not basswood. Based on my experience, for the tones you are looking for, I would try a regular Norton in the bridge and a PAF Joe in the neck. I've used SDs and DMZs pretty equally, and both companies make some pickups that really work well for me, and some that don't. The Norton is a very open sounding pickup and largely ignored for some strange reason, I think it is one of DiMarzios best. I really like the Breed and EVO2 also. The Super 3 is another cool, fun to play pickup, but I don't think it is what you are looking for.

Also, you might try the JB in the bridge, it's too hot for a neck pickup IMHO, ignore all the threads about "ice-pick highs" of the JB, if it works in your guitar, it will most likely sound great. Trade the Custom for a '59, that might get you where you want to be. Some of the problem may also be in your choice of amp, speakers, pedals, etc...

[heymcz]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! I'll take a second look at the D Sonic, and Norton. PATB-3 kind of scare me due to the E.Q. chart. So far I'm still liking the idea of the Breed in the bridge, and if it doesn't work, I'd swap it for the Super Distortion. I did mention Lynch Mob in the original request along with Who and AC/DC, but I can indeed hang with Priest/Maiden/KISS, (I know it's "the" KISS pickup) as a second choice. I suppose I should be a bit more clear that I'm really just looking for a fat, full sound (which is why I said Who & AC/DC); with regards to output, hotter is fine and actually better. In other words, "powerful but versatile". Doesn't have to be a clone of anyone's tone at all, just "big", for lack of a better word. So far I've only seen one negative review of a Breed bridge anywhere....

For the curious, I have tried in the bridge:
EVH: Grating, very much the "icepick" effect.
DD: Way too thin.
SD: Even thinner.
Custom: Not bad, good E.Q., just a bit sterile and fizzy
Full Shred: Too articulate, but good power and full sounding with highs rolled back
Custom 5: Sounded dead, no mids
Custom 8: Just all upper mids and grating
Custom Custom: No bottom, no top, a bit "blurry" or "cloudy" sounding

And in the neck position:
'59: Really nice sounding, but only for soloing. "No" mids.
PGn: Grating, irritating, and not as smooth as the '59.


I'm not willing to give up on the guitar because I have gotten some good sounds out of it with the Custom, Full Shred, 59n, but nothing has been "it".