"Until They Are Conscious...

[Pierre]

I live for others. I'm always willing to encourage people to do things, whether it is to take action or simply stand up to something that shouldn't happen. People like you make people like us feel it's useless, and therefore some of us will stop trying to change things. And that's when The Man wins.

[Axl H]

I live for others. I'm always willing to encourage people to do things, whether it is to take action or simply stand up to something that shouldn't happen. People like you make people like us feel it's useless, and therefore some of us will stop trying to change things. And that's when The Man wins.

People like me? Tell you what, I would give my kidney in a split second, if I knew it could help you, or anyone else for that matter from dying. In general, I think I am a pretty cheery guy, and I try my best to make other people happy.

Maybe you misunderstod what I meant. I simply meant, that my goodness towards other people is not determined by my conscience, but what I was raised with. My motto is the classic Do to others, as you want them to do to you.

[Pierre]

Ah sorry dude I realize my post may have been a little harsh. I simply meant people who don't see the world out there for what it is. In a way, pessimists I see your point now. I think for me it's a bit of both. I like to change things because I'm not happy with the world now, due to my own personal beliefs and to having a family who tried to change things too.

[LesStrat]

Alright, you two kiss and make up.

[Pierre]

It's true I sometimes look down on people who don't look further than their own space and lives... but at the same time I wish I could do it, it'd make everything a lot simpler. But not better.

[Axl H]

It's true I sometimes look down on people who don't look further than their own space and lives... but at the same time I wish I could do it, it'd make everything a lot simpler. But not better.

HEhe man, Pierre, I couldn't bring myself to hate you, I did think your post was a bit harsh, but mine was too. I have had a hard day today, the depression hasnt been easy today, but whatever.

I guess these recent events, has giving me time to concentrate on myself getting better, so I can help others with feeling better too

[LesStrat]

[Pierre]

Good point. I've been entirely overlooking myself over the past two years and it's time I change that. You can't change the world if you're not willing to change yourself/are healthy.

[Fender_Punk]

I live for others. I'm always willing to encourage people to do things, whether it is to take action or simply stand up to something that shouldn't happen. Apathetic people make people like us feel it's useless, and therefore some of us will stop trying to change things. And that's when The Man wins.

+1. You realize all the problems in the world, and that you as one person can't take them all on, and feel it's useless when you can't find help. (Axl I changed the quote because I don't think Pierre meant what you took this as and I don't see you as one of the people he was referring to).

It's true I sometimes look down on people who don't look further than their own space and lives... but at the same time I wish I could do it, it'd make everything a lot simpler. But not better.

Some days I definitely wish I was more selfish and less empathetic.

[GoldenVulture]

AxelH

I have had a hard day today, the depression hasnt been easy today, but whatever.

I came down with a severe case of "chronic depression" in the late80,s.
Depression can be very debilatating.Twenty years later i still have mild symptoms of it,but staying involved in life can help you kick it.

cheers !

[Axl H]

AxelH



I came down with a severe case of "chronic depression" in the late80,s.
Depression can be very debilatating.Twenty years later i still have mild symptoms of it,but staying involved in life can help you kick it.

cheers !

It sure can. Having my first day at work today, after being away due to depression, and its quite hard to show up indeed. Alot of things like working out, taking a 5 minute break during the day and stuff like that, really helps when you thought it didnt

[Bender]

...they cannot rebel, and until they rebel they cannot become conscious"

- Eric Blair aka George Orwell.

I bring this quote to the forum's attention as sort of a spin-off of the thread on those zealous bigots picketing soldiers funerals and now Heath Ledger's funeral, ut not about them. What I was thinking about, and have thought about many times in the past, was the meaning of that Orwell quote. I find myself asking "how can people put up with this BS" when stuff like those religious freaks picketing, only to find the answer in that Orwell quote. Another example would be the US having a president with a 4% approval rating (or it was that at some point) and yet none of those unsatisfied 96% impeeched him and still haven't. Why? Because "Until They Are Conscious they cannot rebel, and until they rebel they cannot become conscious."

I'm not trying to get political here, this goes much deeper than the superficialness of politics (well, politics in practise anyway). Why do YOU think it is that this quote holds so much truth? Why don't people stand up against something when they know they'd be righteous in their actions, and not self-righteous, but altruistically righteous. Why at those moments do people coward away when they know they could have so many behind them?

Personally, I think it's fear and desensitization. People are most obedient when they are afraid, and least likely to face a fear that is bigger than their courage. Or they feel they are too small a force and that their cries won't be reverberated by a million more with the same anguish. Obviously it's unrealistic to picket the street every day for a different cause, but there's so many other ways, and probably many more effective ways for people to amass and bring about change.

I'm not saying people have never gained consciousness and overthrown their oppression (however small or large of a form it be), as the civil rights movement, apartheid, and the resistance in India are all examples. But these are a few examples in a world full of other causes in need of the same solidarity.

Why am I bringing this up? Partially the "These People Must Be Stopped Thread" and partially the Orwell quote, both of which make me think that whatever the future has in store, it'll help further the decline of humanity, which will either further drive people away from trying to change its course or will become conscious of all the madness and atrocities around them and take every step necessary to improve this planet so that humanity may continue to exist on it for ages to come.

I'd REALLY like to hear from you guys on this, philosophically speaking. We all have different political views, and we all know we'll never agree on them, so let's keep this from getting political (and I don't intend to perpetuate any of my own political views in this). There's been other philosophical threads on here that blew my mind away, so I know you guys can give good answers on this.

Sorry for the absurdly long post, and if this thread seems sketchy in "line-crossing" to the admins, let me know and I'll delete it.

fools despise wisdom and instruction.

If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

[Redmist]

Wtf?
I presume the above post is a joke? There being no politics or religion, right? Otherwise a few of us will open up the whuppin floodgates!

[Bender]

Wtf?
I presume the above post is a joke? There being no politics or religion, right? Otherwise a few of us will open up the whuppin floodgates!

Ok,, so as not to get into "religion" I 'll delete my post ,, that said. I was trying to get the thread back to the original post ,,
There will always be those who " for the name of God " ( no matter what " God " that may be ) take matters into what they feel is the right way things should be done.
In regards to why we let them get away with it.
Most people feel that getting involved is someone elses duty. That someone else will always make sure the trouble makers are taken care of.
The quote I had was meant to show how people take things out of context and no matter what goes on in the world there WILL come an end to the pointlessness and cruelty that we have become. Just as your post implies, there are those who think that because someone mentions anything religious of any nature it's meant as a joke or is by someone trying to push their beliefs on you. I was not doing either.
It was not meant to offend you or anyone else but if it did so be it. Get over it or " open the whuppin floodgates ."
I have no intention of at any time pushing my beliefs on ANYONE! And futher more from now on will keep them to myself.
Soooooooo.. on with the show

[GuitarStv]

One of the biggest problems that I've seen with things happening in the world today is caused by the good intentions of (generally) decent people. I think that most people want to do good, but we all have dramatically different opinions about what good is.

This is why you get crazy situations where people who believe strongly in the importance of life will bomb buildings where abortions are done. This is why people who believe in a religion of love and redemption will condemn someone for being gay. This is why deviants who prey on children create organizations to say that sex between children and adults is OK. In their own way, these people think that what they're doing is good, necessary, and helpful to others. The gray areas for some are very black and white for others.

There's no easy response and answer to this problem because it comes from the different values and morals that each of us learn over our lifetimes. The best we can seem to hope for is to respect our differences and try to avoid imposing help on people who don't want it.

[Bender]

One of the biggest problems that I've seen with things happening in the world today is caused by the good intentions of (generally) decent people. I think that most people want to do good, but we all have dramatically different opinions about what good is.

This is why you get crazy situations where people who believe strongly in the importance of life will bomb buildings where abortions are done. This is why people who believe in a religion of love and redemption will condemn someone for being gay. This is why deviants who prey on children create organizations to say that sex between children and adults is OK. In their own way, these people think that what they're doing is good, necessary, and helpful to others. The gray areas for some are very black and white for others.

There's no easy response and answer to this problem because it comes from the different values and morals that each of us learn over our lifetimes. The best we can seem to hope for is to respect our differences and try to avoid imposing help on people who don't want it.

Very well put ! +1

[thucydides]

I should have stayed in the Marines...

[LesStrat]

...This is why people who believe in a religion of love and redemption will condemn someone for being gay...

We don't really care if you're gay.