Children Of Bodom

[Empty Pockets]

Ha i don't have any scary talent.

Anyway I definitely see your point, but the first time i heard metallica i was 5 or 6 and i still thought it was lame. It sounds more like country music than my personal idea of what 'heavy metal' is.

And today, Zeppelin and Sabbath ARE corny and mainstream. You can get their t-shirts at Wal-Mart, and seeing somebody with one of those shirts on is no guarantee that they're a fan...the fact that i like their music doesn't make them any less comical.

Fact of the matter is I like a lot of music that takes itself so seriously it becomes parody...I'm really into this hip-hop song by Rocko called "Umma Do Me" half because of the message and half because of the rediculous name...

What i'm saying is, it's not that I don't like Pantera or Metallica because they're corny...I don't like them, AND they're corny.

and the LAST thing i'm doing is saying lions shouldn't eat Christians. In fact Christians are packed with the vitamins, minerals and proteins young lions need to grow big and strong. I was just trying to understand homie's perspective on shockvalue.

[H8Red442]

When you were five or six, I'm sure Bert and Ernie sounded much better to you but if you're going to insinuate that either And Justice For All or the Black Album or for that matter Far Beyond Driven or Vulgar Display of Power are country music, I'm calling bull****. Your frame of reference is way off.

I don't personally like Zep or Sabbath but it's just not my style. I'm quite sure that in the late 60s and early 70s they had no idea what to make of either band.

[sosomething]

Understanding that something from the past cannot be properly interpreted in the context of today is a skill that a lot of people lack, especially when it concerns music.

A mixture of self-awareness and a frame of reference can help, but even that is beyond the reach of some.

Folks should realize that all that is relevant in the universe didn't just begin the day they started paying attention.

[idsnowdog]

Children Of Boredom.

[Empty Pockets]

Understanding that something from the past cannot be properly interpreted in the context of today is a skill that a lot of people lack, especially when it concerns music.

A mixture of self-awareness and a frame of reference can help, but even that is beyond the reach of some.

Folks should realize that all that is relevant in the universe didn't just begin the day they started paying attention.

It's no lack of understanding on my part. I acknowledge and respect both bands for what they did, and it's not like i totally hate on Pantera (who are way closer to metal than Metallica) but it's possible to acknowledge and respect a musician without getting all up on their sac about their music.

Metallica sounds more like 'spooky country' to me than anything else. When I think of a REAL older, underground metal band, my mind goes straight to Napalm Death or Slayer or Venom...y'know, heavy bands.

I have a similar attitude towards Justin Timberlake...i only like one or two of his songs, but obviously writing good songs isn't what he does. What he does is make those songs appealing to enough people to get rich off it, and you've gotta give a nilla props for making it big. Same thing for Metallica...they made chuggachugga guitars and cornball lyrics about being a lonely cowboy appealing to a whole lot of people, and are now rich because of it. Props for them, but I'm not gonna pretend "Nothing Else Matters" rocks just cuz they're rich.

Relevance is in the eye of the beholder. What is relevant to me might not mean a god**** thing to you....you think Metallica is the greatest band to walk the earth? Power to ya...to me they're just a bunch of old faded rockstars who couldn't keep up with the best of their time (SLAYER...still kicking just as much ass today as in 87) -- much less the best of today.

[sosomething]

After reading your post, I think lack of understanding is exactly what we're dealing with here, as well as a shaky interpretation of the concept of "relevance" in a musical / cultural context.

Try to think of the progression of band influences like a family tree and it might start to take shape.

[H8Red442]

It's no lack of understanding on my part. I acknowledge and respect both bands for what they did, and it's not like i totally hate on Pantera (who are way closer to metal than Metallica) but it's possible to acknowledge and respect a musician without getting all up on their sac about their music.

Metallica sounds more like 'spooky country' to me than anything else. When I think of a REAL older, underground metal band, my mind goes straight to Napalm Death or Slayer or Venom...y'know, heavy bands.

I have a similar attitude towards Justin Timberlake...i only like one or two of his songs, but obviously writing good songs isn't what he does. What he does is make those songs appealing to enough people to get rich off it, and you've gotta give a nilla props for making it big. Same thing for Metallica...they made chuggachugga guitars and cornball lyrics about being a lonely cowboy appealing to a whole lot of people, and are now rich because of it. Props for them, but I'm not gonna pretend "Nothing Else Matters" rocks just cuz they're rich.

Relevance is in the eye of the beholder. What is relevant to me might not mean a god**** thing to you....you think Metallica is the greatest band to walk the earth? Power to ya...to me they're just a bunch of old faded rockstars who couldn't keep up with the best of their time (SLAYER...still kicking just as much ass today as in 87) -- much less the best of today.

If you truly believe this, your head is is somewhere other than on your shoulders.

[hanumanlangur]

If you truly believe this, your head is is somewhere other than on your shoulders.

+1.

And the reason that I said that using profanity explicitly for shock value reminds me of rap, is because those words are said with greater emphasis than others. I have no moral objection to profanity, but I think it's stupid to use it so explicitly for shock value. If it's just another word in a song, then I don't care.

And saying that Black Sabbath isn't metal, and Metallica sounds like country music doesn't make a bit of sense. You should go back and listen to some early Black Sabbath and Metallica.

1970 Black Sabbath: http://youtube.com/watch?v=nBRyB4GA_GI
1986 Metallica: http://youtube.com/watch?v=68SgQLKnlYM

[vinterland]

The voice is merely another instrument and it's word shouldn't be taken so seriously but it's timbre shall.

[H8Red442]

Empty, You have an incredibly myopic view of what constitutes metal. Metal is a large umbrella encompassing everything from Preist, Sabbath, Motorhead and Maiden to Metallica, Anthrax, Slayer and Megadeth to Death, At The Gates, Carcass and Necrophagist Old Man's Child, Emperor, Napalm Death, Nile and Behemoth is considered metal in some form or another.

To say Metallica is "spooky country" makes me wonder if you've ever listened to any of their songs other than Nothing Else Matters, Ronnie, Mama Said and Low Man's Lyric. You are aware that they had albums before "Metallica" correct? Ever heard of Kill 'Em All, Ride The Lightning, Master Of Puppes, Garage Days and And Justice for all right?

Some bands may not be as extreme as you like but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of bands that aren't "heavy" by your measure are the masters and served as the blue print for the noise that passes for music let alone metal these days.

[Empty Pockets]

never said black sabbath wasn't metal...just said that they're corny

i think genre names are trivial anyway man. it's like middle school arguing about this...i've heard so many absurd definitions of every genre that i don't like to use any of them anymore if i can avoid it. "Black Sabbath WAS metal but now that there are heavier bands they're just hard rock," derp "Green Day isn't punk cuz they're on the radio," duh "My favorite death metal band is either Korn or Slipknot," doi. Trivialized all that stuff nice and early for me...

and yeah i've heard a lot of metallica, and 'with liberty' was pretty heavy and thrashy but after the 'black album' it gets really lame man.

i mean i tried to like them, i even have a Pantera t-shirt around here somewhere, i just don't.

there's nothing in my posts about 'belief'...just my opinions of bands and their music. Metallica ain't heavy enough for me, that's cool for you guys if you dig 'em, sorry if my NOT digging them seriously bugs you that much but you're not gonna change my opinion after i've given 'em as many chances as i have...

Opinions are like *******s...if you don't like mine you should take your nose out of it.

[Beer$]

Empty what's going on? Genre names aren't splitting hairs, you should know that. There are distinct differences between Death Metal, Thrash Metal, Black Metal, Doom Metal, Power Metal etc. and certain bands may combine elements of more than one. H8red, VK etc. Pretty much all the other metalheads on the forum would agree. There IS an indisputable difference between the subgenres.

[jimmy]

Hahahaha, HEY!

You know what would be rad?

Someone should register on the COB forum and post a link to this thread. That way, you guys could debate guys with biased opinions.
Fun for days!

[emilio]

**** it, i don't care much, i like metallica and pantera, you don't. GREAT!

[Beer$]

I tried, Alexi doesn't give a flying...

[H8Red442]

never said black sabbath wasn't metal...just said that they're corny

i think genre names are trivial anyway man. it's like middle school arguing about this...i've heard so many absurd definitions of every genre that i don't like to use any of them anymore if i can avoid it. "Black Sabbath WAS metal but now that there are heavier bands they're just hard rock," derp "Green Day isn't punk cuz they're on the radio," duh "My favorite death metal band is either Korn or Slipknot," doi. Trivialized all that stuff nice and early for me...

and yeah i've heard a lot of metallica, and 'with liberty' was pretty heavy and thrashy but after the 'black album' it gets really lame man.

i mean i tried to like them, i even have a Pantera t-shirt around here somewhere, i just don't.

there's nothing in my posts about 'belief'...just my opinions of bands and their music. Metallica ain't heavy enough for me, that's cool for you guys if you dig 'em, sorry if my NOT digging them seriously bugs you that much but you're not gonna change my opinion after i've given 'em as many chances as i have...

Opinions are like *******s...if you don't like mine you should take your nose out of it.

No one cares if you like it or not but you can't classify something as no longer part of a genre because there is something that goes to an extreme in that genre. It's not a sliding scale. It may be heavier but that doesn't mean it's any more "metal". Sabbath, Motorhead, Preist, Maiden all early metal. Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Testament, Nuclear Assault, Overkill all thrash metal.

Just because Dan Lilker left Anthrax and formed Nuclear Assault that was faster and harder and more underground does that mean that Anthrax is no longer metal? When Nuclear Assault broke up and Lilker went on to form Brutal Truth does this scale now slide up to not include Nuclear Assault, S.O.D. or Anthrax any longer?

To say that Metallica's early releases aren't metal because Load/Reload and Metallica were less than so, asinine. To classify them as spooky country denies all they've done before. Metal is metal. I don't think anyone would argue that Judas Preist isn't metal when they were some of the forefathers.

In comparison Kill 'Em All may not be as heavy, fast and over the top as SYL or Nile or any other extreme music these days but that doesn't change the fact that it was and still is the blue print for thrash. All the thrash bands in the 80s came out with one version or another of their metal and then went off in a different direction from there.

The separate classifications of Doom, Black, Death, Grind, Math whatever all include the metal world. Perhaps you like the heavy stuff but that doesn't equate to something no longer being metal because the envelope has been pushed.

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Empty, I hate Metallica more than any metalhead should be able to, and I still agree with everything H8Red has said in this thread. You've apparently got your head so displaced that your adam's apple is really just your nose poking out from the inside.

[jimmy]

Ladies, Ladies, Ladies!


We must stop quarreling amongst ourselves so that we can think of a way to post this on the COB forum.

[Empty Pockets]

No one cares if you like it or not but you can't classify something as no longer part of a genre because there is something that goes to an extreme in that genre. It's not a sliding scale. It may be heavier but that doesn't mean it's any more "metal". Sabbath, Motorhead, Preist, Maiden all early metal. Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Testament, Nuclear Assault, Overkill all thrash metal.

Just because Dan Lilker left Anthrax and formed Nuclear Assault that was faster and harder and more underground does that mean that Anthrax is no longer metal? When Nuclear Assault broke up and Lilker went on to form Brutal Truth does this scale now slide up to not include Nuclear Assault, S.O.D. or Anthrax any longer?

To say that Metallica's early releases aren't metal because Load/Reload and Metallica were less than so, asinine. To classify them as spooky country denies all they've done before. Metal is metal. I don't think anyone would argue that Judas Preist isn't metal when they were some of the forefathers.

In comparison Kill 'Em All may not be as heavy, fast and over the top as SYL or Nile or any other extreme music these days but that doesn't change the fact that it was and still is the blue print for thrash. All the thrash bands in the 80s came out with one version or another of their metal and then went off in a different direction from there.

The separate classifications of Doom, Black, Death, Grind, Math whatever all include the metal world. Perhaps you like the heavy stuff but that doesn't equate to something no longer being metal because the envelope has been pushed.

Thank you for misunderstanding everything I said. You guys have fun debating genres and what constitutes a style of music, i'm gonna go take a bath and listen to MF Doom.

[sosomething]

Thank you for misunderstanding everything I said. You guys have fun debating genres and what constitutes a style of music, i'm gonna go take a bath and listen to MF Doom.

You started it, dude.

Come on.

You waved a big rare hunk of beef around Yellowstone park and now you're shocked and appalled that the wolves had the gaul to show up.

Saying something like "Metallica and Pantera aren't really metal" is tantamount to heresy to a lot of people. Coming back and claiming to be misunderstood and that you're only meekly stating your opinions might get you off the hook, but we can only go by what you articulate in your posts, and we've got a whole thread full of you making some pretty misinformed claims about metal in general. Whether you call them your opinions or not does not always excuse you from having them disabused.

Peace!