Are older SD pickups better than newer ones?

[peter_s]

Is there any truth in the myth that old SD pups are better than new production line ones? For ex. is Jazz neck with jnj on the back better than sh2-n on the back? Thanks

[jerryjg]

Is there any truth in the myth that old SD pups are better than new production line ones? For ex. is Jazz neck with jnj on the back better than sh2-n on the back? Thanks

anything older is better. Except for the newer state of the art stuff.

[Luke Duke]

Well the older a mag gets the more mellow...so it depends on personal taste.

That said, the last J on the code stands for MJ. MJ has been winding pups for SD for 25 years. She's a pro and winds a GREAT pup.

Luke

[donahue]

anything older is better. Except for the newer state of the art stuff.

Thats pretty cliche'. A pickup with the exact same specs shouldn't really sound any different, and if it does the difference would be subtle. I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing, I just don't believe that. If it was the case, would older SD's be more sought after? Cause I get the older ones for cheaper, since it seems theres more demand for new.

The '59 is a good example. Its modeled after a PAF pickup. Its not from 1959, but prolly sounds just as "good" as one.

[BigAlTheBird]

anything older is better.

I like you even more now Jerry.

[Karmadog777]

hmmm...i just discovered this and have to agree with Luke , I just replaced my old CC with a SH-11 (both custom customs) and the older one is definately sweeter and mellower sounding

[uOpt]

It's really not that simple.

First of all the magnets when losing charge they don't just get more mellow. They tame back on their particular emphasis. That means that A5 which has lots of treble and low bass gets more middy. But the previously middy A2 gets less middy. Confused yet?

Then A2 is not A2. I have charged and recharged several A2s now and one of the (the one from my CC) is just not the same material. The maximum charge is lower than what the others have.

Then, I believe that mounting and movement of the pickup and inside the pickup plays a much bigger role than people normally believe. An old pickup well settled in it's wax and on a wooden space sounding different than a fresh one? I could be convinced it does.

[theodie]

The older model and MJ wound pickups are a placebo effect IMO. They are the same dam thing and for a magnet to mellow, it takes many many years to have a subtle effect.

I call total BS.

[TheArchitect]

The older model and MJ wound pickups are a placebo effect IMO. They are the same dam thing and for a magnet to mellow, it takes many many years to have a subtle effect.

I call total BS.

I agree. The placebo effect is strong though in many aspects of the gear industry. Maybe it doesn't matter if its really better as long as they think it is.

[theodie]

I agree. The placebo effect is strong though in many aspects of the gear industry. Maybe it doesn't matter if its really better as long as they think it is.

That is what I am saying.

[ArtieToo]

This should be "vaulted".

[jerryjg]

just to try and add something constructive to wahts already been said, in general Dimarzios are always advertised on EBay as vintage, and the 70's models, like older Gibbos, do tend to sell at a higher price and are a bit more sought after i think. I believe they probably do sound better.I boguht a 70's square tab Dimaz PAF and an early 80's Dimarzio SuperD> Those pickups are now over 30 years old, so they are indeed classic, if not vintage.IF you dont think aging does something to a pickup thhats good, then why would Seymour Duncan do the "Dun-ageing" process on his Antiquities? huh..huh??

I think as far as the OP's question, the Duncans havent had time to age as mauch as Dimazs' being newer, and therefore you do not normally see "vintage duncan"s on ebay like you do "Vinatge DiMarzio".
Proabbaly the effect is proportinal to the time the Duncan has aged.

[lemonman]

I can't speak to early/late differences, but I've got multiple 59s and PGs that definitely sound different from each other, compared in the same guitars. It's not a huge difference, probably not as much as between Gibson pups but it's surely there.

[Karmadog777]

as far as my CC goes... its not plecbo, I wish it did sound the same as the old, the new one is nickel covered and if anything i would expect it to sound duller or less dynamics, but its the oppisite, as i mentioned in another thread the new CC sounds fuller and alittle"grainer" as best as i can put it in words.My old CC is definately smoother and mellower sounding, even after the hex screw mod.(tightens up a CC beautifully BTW)

[Curly]

I would expect the differences with newer vs. older humbuckers to be about the same as between two of the same new ones, unless there has been a slight change in the specs, or unless the older ones happened to vary more in output.

the effect of mellowing magnets would be very slight, except that with more time, there's more chance for some degaussing

that said, I'm not saying I don't believe those who hear a difference between two pickups of the same model

[Stratcat]

The new Duncan pups sound just as good or better than the older ones, as they use the same materials, and same high quality craftsmanship.

[frankfalbo]

I would expect the differences with newer vs. older humbuckers to be about the same as between two of the same new ones, unless there has been a slight change in the specs, or unless the older ones happened to vary more in output.

the effect of mellowing magnets would be very slight, except that with more time, there's more chance for some degaussing

This is about the best characterization I can think of. I can tell you (without any bias) that no formula has changed. No wire type, gauge, number of turns, magnet type, tension, traverse, etc. has ever been changed. Heck not even the winder (Leesona) has been changed for vintage Gibson replicas! We're still using butyrate bobbins, Every nickel cover is inspected (Oh my gosh you should see how many we reject! The manufacturers must hate us!)

But each pickup can go through various environments and change a little over time.

The magnet degausing isn't just "time" related, remember that shock or proximity to other pickups (like in a "parts drawer" for example) can have subtle effects on the magnetism. Magnets can also become degaussed in different areas, like a corner, or "just on the bass side" etc. The magnet is an important part of the sound. If a pickup gets too hot, the wax can drip down out of the coil and cause some segments of the pickup not to be potted as well. So some of the coil could be a little microphonic. Anyone that can hear the difference between a potted and unpotted Seth Lover could tell you that there's a difference to be heard if the potting melts out of the coil as well.

To me, the older Duncans are more of a crapshoot, because you don't know what someone has done to them. But that's what makes an old Les Paul cool, too, right? You play it, and for all you know it's been bounced out of a moving car, baked in a 140 degree trunk, drenched in booze, flooded in a basement, and it's AWESOME!!!!

I see nothing but consistency and quality throughout here. The company is built around customer satisfaction. So that means accuracy and consistency. If we want to do something new, we make a new product. We don't try to build it into the existing product.

By comparison, (remember I've owned literally thousands of pickups, and installed thousands more) I've seen other exact same model pickups where some have had tall Alnico magnets and others regular sized. Some were wound as hot as 11k (when the mfg specs were 8.4k) Some had little spacers in to make a smaller sized magnet fit, while others had the appropriate sized magnet. Hey there's a company out there right now that is about to completely redesign a pickup and leave the same part number, same name, and offer no distinguishing marks for you to tell which is which. I've seen boutique scatterwound pickups with specs and coil shapes and sizes all over the map. They might sound awesome, but what's to guarantee the next one will sound the same?

I think of any manufacturer out there, Seymour Duncan is the least apt to be having this discussion, but pickups are literally the origin of all electric guitar tone. One tiny change at the pickup level is felt (and sometimes magnified) all the way down the signal chain. So I'd be more inclined to say that differences between old and new are no more apparent than differences between one pickup to the other. I also have some pickups (including Seymour Duncans) that are just magical. Everything must've been perfect that day, or at least perfect for me. And those I'll never sell.

[Karmadog777]

To me, the older Duncans are more of a crapshoot, because you don't know what someone has done to them. But that's what makes an old Les Paul cool, too, right? You play it, and for all you know it's been bounced out of a moving car, baked in a 140 degree trunk, drenched in booze, flooded in a basement, and it's AWESOME!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- some pickups (including Seymour Duncans) that are just magical. Everything must've been perfect that day, or at least perfect for me. And those I'll never sell.

now thats what Im talkin about! MoJo !

[wanmei1]

This is about the best characterization I can think of. I can tell you (without any bias) that no formula has changed. No wire type, gauge, number of turns, magnet type, tension, traverse, etc. has ever been changed. Heck not even the winder (Leesona) has been changed for vintage Gibson replicas! We're still using butyrate bobbins, Every nickel cover is inspected (Oh my gosh you should see how many we reject! The manufacturers must hate us!)

But each pickup can go through various environments and change a little over time.

The magnet degausing isn't just "time" related, remember that shock or proximity to other pickups (like in a "parts drawer" for example) can have subtle effects on the magnetism. Magnets can also become degaussed in different areas, like a corner, or "just on the bass side" etc. The magnet is an important part of the sound. If a pickup gets too hot, the wax can drip down out of the coil and cause some segments of the pickup not to be potted as well. So some of the coil could be a little microphonic. Anyone that can hear the difference between a potted and unpotted Seth Lover could tell you that there's a difference to be heard if the potting melts out of the coil as well.

To me, the older Duncans are more of a crapshoot, because you don't know what someone has done to them. But that's what makes an old Les Paul cool, too, right? You play it, and for all you know it's been bounced out of a moving car, baked in a 140 degree trunk, drenched in booze, flooded in a basement, and it's AWESOME!!!!

I see nothing but consistency and quality throughout here. The company is built around customer satisfaction. So that means accuracy and consistency. If we want to do something new, we make a new product. We don't try to build it into the existing product.

By comparison, (remember I've owned literally thousands of pickups, and installed thousands more) I've seen other exact same model pickups where some have had tall Alnico magnets and others regular sized. Some were wound as hot as 11k (when the mfg specs were 8.4k) Some had little spacers in to make a smaller sized magnet fit, while others had the appropriate sized magnet. Hey there's a company out there right now that is about to completely redesign a pickup and leave the same part number, same name, and offer no distinguishing marks for you to tell which is which. I've seen boutique scatterwound pickups with specs and coil shapes and sizes all over the map. They might sound awesome, but what's to guarantee the next one will sound the same?

I think of any manufacturer out there, Seymour Duncan is the least apt to be having this discussion, but pickups are literally the origin of all electric guitar tone. One tiny change at the pickup level is felt (and sometimes magnified) all the way down the signal chain. So I'd be more inclined to say that differences between old and new are no more apparent than differences between one pickup to the other. I also have some pickups (including Seymour Duncans) that are just magical. Everything must've been perfect that day, or at least perfect for me. And those I'll never sell.

Fabulous Post.
Thanks frankfalbo !

[C-Martin]

i have a particular Duncan pickup, its a Custom but not like others ive had and i own several customs and they all are very similar even if some are realy old and MJ wound, they sound very slightly different but still sounds just like a custom. This one particular custom however is a realy old one, with the old labels and is marked as a Duncan Custom and has a "Seymourized" label too i did a post on here long ago when i first bought it, the seller said it came off an old Charvel from the 80s, and people told me its likely to be either an early Custom from when seymour started making pups or a pickup sent to him to be modified because apparently he used to do that. Whatever it is it sounds awesome in my les paul but rather shrill and bad in my strat and defently not like a regular custom because i love the custom in my strat.