Bridge HB for my new Strat . . . need suggestions

[CaughtLikeFire]

just picked up one of the American Special mahogany Strats. I like the Tex-Mex single coils (not a fan of the traditional super-bright Strat pups) but the Diamondback HB doesn't have near enough low end.

more background: the mahogany body + RW board do make this Strat noticeably warmer than a typical alder American Std but it is far from being a dark guitar. like a slightly brighter SG. I play through a Mesa Stiletto Ace (think hot-rodded JCM 800) and a V30-loaded cab.

if I went the high-output route, I was thinking TB-5 Custom. the single coils are pretty loud so it might be fine. I'm keeping the stock S-1 wiring for now by the way.

thoughts? should I be going lower output like Pearly Gates or '59?

music style is indie rock and punk - I like more raw, organic tones. none of that hi-fi prog and metal nonsense

[Zhangliqun]

A lot depends on how far from the bridge the humbucker hole in the pickguard is. You can tell by how wide the strip of the pickguard between the bridge humbucker hole and the bridge is. Some are about 9mm in which case you can use your standard idea of what consistutes a good bridge. Some are about 14mm which means something more in the vintage range will work better because its physical positioning is already picking up more mids and lows.

Probably yours is in the 14mm range.

[CaughtLikeFire]

A lot depends on how far from the bridge the humbucker hole in the pickguard is. You can tell by how wide the strip of the pickguard between the bridge humbucker hole and the bridge is. Some are about 9mm in which case you can use your standard idea of what consistutes a good bridge. Some are about 14mm which means something more in the vintage range will work better because its physical positioning is already picking up more mids and lows.

Probably yours is in the 14mm range.

it's about 15mm but the factory HB is still really bright. how the hell does Fender wind these things?

[uOpt]

The Custom isn't louder than a '59, BTW.

[Laughing Kookaburra]

I like more raw, organic tones

My suggestion would be a 59 or Alnico II Pro, then. Not sure which one would be the best, since your Strat isn't as bright as a typical Strat.

I have not used a PGb, but from what I've heard about it, it may be a bit bright for your tastes in the bridge. I'm making a guess re that; I could be wrong.

[Robert S.]

I think the Custom would be a good fit.

The problem with 8k pickups is no matter what magnet they have they always sound bright. Different degrees of bright perhaps but still bright. The Custom has a lower resonant peak and it is quite thick in the mids. Roll the volume pot around a little and I am sure you will find many useable tones without the shrillness you can get from a Strat with an 8k humbucker in the bridge.

I stick Customs into RGs all the time with great results.

[CaughtLikeFire]

The Custom isn't louder than a '59, BTW.

really . . . I assumed it was higher output based on the way it's described/marketed by Duncan. Good to know.


thanks everyone for the suggestions - much appreciated!

On paper the Custom seems to be a good fit based on the characteristics Robert S mentioned . . . and I could always swap in an alnico mag if it's not quite right.

and the only 8-9k bucker I've ever been truly happy with was the EVH in an Alder MIJ Strat . . . maybe I'll try the high output pickup 1st this time and see what happens.

[ganzosrevenge]

Ya see, one of the cool things about the HSS mahogany is that it sounds either like a dark strat or a bright SG/LP guitar. The reason I say SG / LP is based on how much it weighs. A light one can be in SG territory, whereas a heavy one will give a LP a good run for it's money. One of the first things that I would do is to build a whole new PG. Call me crazy, but the S-1 switch has been shown to provide mixed results in terms of reliability, and the more wires you have running about, the more capable something is of going bump in the night when you least want it to. The more simplistic Lone-Star switching would provide the single coil abilities, series HB, and an autosplit in position 2 that provides the best of strat and gibson worlds.

As for pickups, I would go for a set of SSL-1s neck and mid, and a brobucker in the bridge. Not just because that's the setup I have, but the SSL-1s provide a nice, low output setup that are very accepting of gain (but not stupid amounts of gain) and clean up to get a very nice 50s to late 60s sound. (Think of a pickup that can cover pretty much anything from buddy holly to hendrix with the twist of a volume knob / tone knob / small gain knob and you have the idea). The brobucker is basically a hot-rodded '59 that's a bit less bright, has a bit more low-end, is wound to 10k output with 42awg vintage wire, and covers the difference between the custom 5 and the '59 quite well. Think of it as a PAF that spent the night with a custom 5 and you'l have the offspring as it. It's $160, but is arguably the highest-in-regard pickup on the SDUGF.

To touch on the tex-mex pickups in brief, the guitar is essentially "buy guitar, get pups free" due to the fact it costs less than a true american deluxe. The Tex-Mex neck and middles are a major cost-cut, which is why I recommend upgrading them to something else, SSL-1s as mentioned above give a nice "P-90 lite" sound, but it would also be worthwhile to look at Texas Specials from the CS, SCN's or an SD stack if you want output without hum, or even going to something more original and employ the full H-S-H rout that's available with a '59 set and a CS '54 in the middle, or a hot-rodded humbucker set with a fat 50s in the middle. With the routing the american mahoganies have, don't limit yourself to H-S-S, pop the hood and look at all the possibilities available, and whatever you do, enjoy it!

(From an american special HSS mahogany owner)

Jason

[mrturtle_91]

Well, I have a Gretsch BST1000, mahogany body, rosewood board and maple neck, and I simply love the GFS Bigmouth I have in the bridge, nice clear, fat, singing highs, chunky bottom end, warm midrange. The guitar is a 24.75" scale, not 25.5, but it has a strat style hardtail bridge. So I definitely recommend the Bigmouth.

[Yngwiestein]

I just picked up one of those too. I feel the opposite about the pickups. The humbucker is fantastic. It's supposed to be high output but I think it's a very conservative high output humbucker. To me it sounds more like a P90. I also has a very decent split sound.

The DH1 in the American special is 16.4k Alnico 5. Possibly my favorite humbucker though is the American standard HSS bridge pickup called the Diamondback, 8.2k Alnico 2. It's so great because it sounds like a fat fender classic pickup with good clarity.

I tossed aroud the idea of swapping the pickups. If I made the switch I would go with a Pearly Gates or a PATB3 Blues Saraceno. I should note that I would be very interested in trying a Dimarzio Norton and PAF Pro in this guitar.

[jafo]

Pups based on the Custom winding are superb; plenty of beef, but still nicely articulate. I prefer the C2, because the highs are sweeter. I'd imagine an A2 '59 would also work, but the A5 '59 was too bright and cold in my Strat, not vintage at all.

That said, my fave is a Phat Cat in the bridge -- warm, clear, beefy, responsive as all hell, balanced nicely with the singlecoils, and so forth. Other than the hum, I can't praise this one enough! A simple magnet flip operation, maybe substituting an A5 for one of the mags, and it's all in phase.

[ganzosrevenge]

I just picked up one of those too. I feel the opposite about the pickups. The humbucker is fantastic. It's supposed to be high output but I think it's a very conservative high output humbucker. To me it sounds more like a P90. I also has a very decent split sound.

The DH1 in the American special is 16.4k Alnico 5. Possibly my favorite humbucker though is the American standard HSS bridge pickup called the Diamondback, 8.2k Alnico 2. It's so great because it sounds like a fat fender classic pickup with good clarity.

I tossed aroud the idea of swapping the pickups. If I made the switch I would go with a Pearly Gates or a PATB3 Blues Saraceno. I should note that I would be very interested in trying a Dimarzio Norton and PAF Pro in this guitar.

Ya sure that your mahogany strat has a DH-1? I thought they all came with the Diamondbacks only. Would that make a DH-1 a fenderized JB?

[CaughtLikeFire]

Ya see, one of the cool things about the HSS mahogany is that it sounds either like a dark strat or a bright SG/LP guitar. The reason I say SG / LP is based on how much it weighs. A light one can be in SG territory, whereas a heavy one will give a LP a good run for it's money. One of the first things that I would do is to build a whole new PG. Call me crazy, but the S-1 switch has been shown to provide mixed results in terms of reliability, and the more wires you have running about, the more capable something is of going bump in the night when you least want it to. The more simplistic Lone-Star switching would provide the single coil abilities, series HB, and an autosplit in position 2 that provides the best of strat and gibson worlds.

As for pickups, I would go for a set of SSL-1s neck and mid, and a brobucker in the bridge. Not just because that's the setup I have, but the SSL-1s provide a nice, low output setup that are very accepting of gain (but not stupid amounts of gain) and clean up to get a very nice 50s to late 60s sound. (Think of a pickup that can cover pretty much anything from buddy holly to hendrix with the twist of a volume knob / tone knob / small gain knob and you have the idea). The brobucker is basically a hot-rodded '59 that's a bit less bright, has a bit more low-end, is wound to 10k output with 42awg vintage wire, and covers the difference between the custom 5 and the '59 quite well. Think of it as a PAF that spent the night with a custom 5 and you'l have the offspring as it. It's $160, but is arguably the highest-in-regard pickup on the SDUGF.

To touch on the tex-mex pickups in brief, the guitar is essentially "buy guitar, get pups free" due to the fact it costs less than a true american deluxe. The Tex-Mex neck and middles are a major cost-cut, which is why I recommend upgrading them to something else, SSL-1s as mentioned above give a nice "P-90 lite" sound, but it would also be worthwhile to look at Texas Specials from the CS, SCN's or an SD stack if you want output without hum, or even going to something more original and employ the full H-S-H rout that's available with a '59 set and a CS '54 in the middle, or a hot-rodded humbucker set with a fat 50s in the middle. With the routing the american mahoganies have, don't limit yourself to H-S-S, pop the hood and look at all the possibilities available, and whatever you do, enjoy it!

(From an american special HSS mahogany owner)

Jason

Jason

thanks for all the info. my long term plans are to rewire everything on a new pickguard but for now, I just wanted to swap out the bridge humbucker. I don't use the S-1 anyways.

The BB sounds like a great idea actually. double the price and a long wait but might be worth it.

[Yngwiestein]

Ya sure that your mahogany strat has a DH-1? I thought they all came with the Diamondbacks only. Would that make a DH-1 a fenderized JB?

Ya your right! LOL! All this time I thought it was a DH1 but your post made me take a look and find out. Amazing how much different it sounds than in an American standard HSS! I had an American deluxe strat in the shop here for a while and it was very similar to the American special except the mahogany body. I assumed they had the same humbucker pickup in the bridge. I guess that explains why I like it so much. Thanks for the correction.

[CaughtLikeFire]

I assumed they had the same humbucker pickup in the bridge. I guess that explains why I like it so much. Thanks for the correction.

been a long time since I played an Am Dlx. don't recall the bridge tone being anything amazing but it wasn't overly bright

[Christopher Caruana]

the PG might be a little bright with the strat. But i think a '59 might be pretty good.

[uOpt]

really . . . I assumed it was higher output based on the way it's described/marketed by Duncan. Good to know.

This does not translate into audible loudness/volume levels. The higher D/C resistance pickups are made from thinner wire, but e.g. Custom and JB probably have the same number of winds within a couple percent. The PAFs should have a couple less but not as much as the numbers imply.

Since more winds mean less treble and you ear is more sensitive in treble it means even with the same wire your pickup fattens up and might produce more electric current but what arrives at your brain isn't louder.

The exception are pickups with drastically different magnetic fields. A8 magnets make the pickup real loud. Ceramic is stronger, but compresses on hard play, so it isn't really louder, but A8 is just stronger, bright, gives more current and doesn't compress, so it goes straight to the brain unless the rig compresses.

Some pickups have double magnets but no fat wind, and that gets loud, too. The Gibson P-94 is such a heavyweight in audible output.