dot pickups revisited!

[super rad stuff]

ok i haven't even gotten around to installing anything in the thing but for good reason. i need some help converting my stock 490s to 4 conductors. i figure they'd be a better set for the dot with just a new set of magnets and maybe some coil taps. anyways, any help and/or pics would be greatly appreciated! if it were duncans, i could probably just doctor it up real easy since i can tell which leads are what, but they're gibbies and i don't know what to expect when i open them up
so... any help would be appreciated, especially pics!
edit: btw i already have about 5 feet of 4 conductor wire so yay for me!

[blueman335]

When you solder on the extending wires, if you do them in the Duncan color coding, it might make things easier as you connect them to the pots.

Any bridge PU in the 9,000 ohm or less range is going to be kind of weak in coil cut (you have 4,500 ohms left at best), so you should leave the slug coil on, as the extra distance from the bridge makes it a little warmer & louder.

I've done coil cuts in just about every guitar I could, but now prefer Artie's coil swap. Coil cut can be pretty bright & thin (and parallel is even worse). Whereas coil swap keeps the PU's in HB, combining the neck screw/bridge slug and neck slug/bridge screw. You get a softer, more open sound because the coils are separated, and no single coil noise, plus the tonal benefit of unbalanced coils (like original 1950's PAF's). In some cases, you're even mixing different magnets (between neck & bridge). Lots of neat things going on, and the sounds are more usable than coil cut, especially for the bridge.

I've gotten great tones from my 490's by putting an A5 in the neck, and an A4 in the bridge. It's like a different set of PU's.

[super rad stuff]

actually, some of the stuff you've been posting is the reason i've decided to go with the 490s instead of the jb/jazz set. on another note, what do you think of putting an a8 in the 490t?would it yield a stronger/beefier bridge and better coil cut sound? also artie's coil swap mod doesn't interest me at this point, but i'm sure i'll end up wiring it up one day.

[super rad stuff]

When you solder on the extending wires, if you do them in the Duncan color coding, it might make things easier as you connect them to the pots.

that's what i was probably going to end up doing, but i don't know which leads are which inside of the gibson pickups

[blueman335]

actually, some of the stuff you've been posting is the reason i've decided to go with the 490s instead of the jb/jazz set. on another note, what do you think of putting an a8 in the 490t?would it yield a stronger/beefier bridge and better coil cut sound? also artie's coil swap mod doesn't interest me at this point, but i'm sure i'll end up wiring it up one day.

I'm very impressed with 490's once you change the magnets. Too many guys swap them out without tweaking them, and end up spending money they didn't need to. I've picked up mine used on eBay for less than half price; how can you go wrong. I think a JazzN is a great neck PU, but a 490R with an A5, while a little hotter, will also give very good, articulate tones. It's a high-quality PU that the manufacturer put the wrong magnet in. Can't hold that against it.

I've tried several JB's in several guitars and it's legendary "ice pick" tone was too bright & harsh in everything, even with 250K's (I remember a post last year where a guy said it's tone reminded him of the whine of a dentist's drill). For my music, an A4 490T is vastly superior to a JB. More warmth and punch, tighter low end, good output, and enough treble to cut. With an A8 in a 490T, you'll get even more output and warmth. I think A8's are a great replacement for a bridge PU with an A2, as you keep the good qualities without the baggage of a loose low end, overly rounded top, and low output. While I use 250K's with A4's, 500K's are needed with A8's.

For years I thought coil cut was the way to go, and didn't jump on Artie's coil swap initially. Once you try it, you'll like it better. But save it for a day when you don't have so many other projects going on. Right now you've got your hands full.

[super rad stuff]

I'm very impressed with 490's once you change the magnets. Too many guys swap them out without tweaking them, and end up spending money they didn't need to. I've picked up mine used on eBay for less than half price; how can you go wrong. I think a JazzN is a great neck PU, but a 490R with an A5, while a little hotter, will also give very good, articulate tones. It's a high-quality PU that the manufacturer put the wrong magnet in. Can't hold that against it.

I've tried several JB's in several guitars and it's legendary "ice pick" tone was too bright & harsh in everything, even with 250K's (I remember a post last year where a guy said it's tone reminded him of the whine of a dentist's drill). For my music, an A4 490T is vastly superior to a JB. More warmth and punch, tighter low end, good output, and enough treble to cut. With an A8 in a 490T, you'll get even more output and warmth. I think A8's are a great replacement for a bridge PU with an A2, as you keep the good qualities without the baggage of a loose low end, overly rounded top, and low output. While I use 250K's with A4's, 500K's are needed with A8's.

For years I thought coil cut was the way to go, and didn't jump on Artie's coil swap initially. Once you try it, you'll like it better. But save it for a day when you don't have so many other projects going on. Right now you've got your hands full.

thanks again for the quick response blueman! you know it's funny that most people think that jbs are harshly bright, because i find them to be a bit dull on top i know it has it's place but i have no place for it right now.
i think i'm going to go 2 for 2 with replacing my bridge a2 for an a8 then, since i'm thoroughly impressed with it in my pearly gates and i don't want to buy anymore pots

but again, how do i turn these suckers into 4conductor?? or will i just have to figure it out >.<

[blueman335]

but again, how do i turn these suckers into 4conductor?? or will i just have to figure it out >.<

You know, having a thread title that actually says "converting to 4 wire" or something to that effect, might draw the responses you need for this.

There's been a few threads about it here & there. I need to do it myself to some Gibsons, but haven't yet. Maybe I can learn it at the same time too.

[super rad stuff]

THEN I SHALL....rename the thread? or do i make a new one?

[lyongraulty]

When you solder on the extending wires, if you do them in the Duncan color coding, it might make things easier as you connect them to the pots.

I put some Gibson pups in my Dot, and I changed them to 4 conductor too using the Seymour Duncan wiring color scheme. It's a lot easier to keep the wires straight that way.

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hey blueman, i was wondering, how do those 490s compare to paf style pickup(particularly a '59 or classic '57) with an a5 magnet set? kinda similar but with more output/midrange??

[blueman335]

hey blueman, i was wondering, how do those 490s compare to paf style pickup(particularly a '59 or classic '57) with an a5 magnet set? kinda similar but with more output/midrange??

You got it, similar to a '59 pair, but a slightly hotter wind that gives them a little more mids; still low output though. As good as 490's are with different magnets, I can't see selling mine, or letting them lay around in a box. If you have them, use 'em.

[super rad stuff]

sweet! that's exactly what i'm looking for actually. i keep reading that the 59s are either too thin or lacking a bit of mids, so it sounds perfect

[blueman335]

i keep reading that the 59s are either too thin or lacking a bit of mids, so it sounds perfect

That's why '59's are at they're best in mahogany and/or warm guitar designs (LP, SG, 335, etc).

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update!
i ordered a 250k pot for the bridge, 1megk for the neck, i already have 2 500k push pulls for both tones, i ordered 4 orange drops, 2 .22 and 2 .15, and a few more magnets(one each a3/a4/a5).
also, i pulled the electronics out of my dot finally, and replaced the magnets with a5 mags, although one or both might possibly become a4. now i've got some questions. i found that there are 2 lead wires soldered and taped together right next to the bobbin. is this the equivalent to seymour's red and white wires, and if i put an extension on this and wire it into the push pull for a coil cut, will it work??

also, what would happen if i wired the tone pots standard with the center lug wired with a cap to ground and the 50s wiring mod with the caps connnecting the tones to volumes??

[super rad stuff]

another update! i had been waiting for my stuff from wymore for about a week and a half, and got fed up waiting and ended up calling john wymore himself. anyways he was real nice about it and said that the post office sent the package back to him because of a mix up with zip codes(i have a different billing adress so i can see how easily this could be mixed up) anyways, he told me that if he has the package already, he'll resend it with a revised zip, or if he doesn't just throw a new package together if he doesn't get the old one by the next day(i called him on friday) real nice guy, great service, he said i'd get the package within the next 3 days or so. cool stuff