Transparent beautiful tone

[Robert Delahunt]

Hi all.

I'm on a tone quest yet again. I want to know what the most beautiful, transparent (yet still organic) sounding pickup is on the Seymour Duncan line. I have played the Zach Wilde Epi Sig and I did like the HZ passive pickups it had, but somehow it was like they're just "too" transparent. They didn't have soul, but they were very transparent in sound.

The reason I ask is because, again, I'm never satisfied with my sound (in a good way). Right now the Hot Rodded set in my Schecter C-1 Classic is doing good, and I like the Jazz neck a lot, but somehow it just lacks a transparent sound. I like its vintage output, and it's the best neck sound I've played. However, I'm still working with my effects (Boss ME-50) and amp (Fender Pro Junior). At times I get a slight bit jealous with the sound (when in overdrive or distortion) that those with Fender American Standard single coils get, and that some players using Ibanez, Dimarzio, or EMG pickups have, only when it is very transparent. I like my Fender Lite Ash, however, a lot, but I will be installing 250k pots and pickups eventually.

The best sound that I get so far is in Tube Screamer mode with the neck. When I pluck strings gently, it sounds so sexy. But when I dig in, it gets a bit muddy. Also, it's almost as if it has too much mids and not enough highs.

What I want is a sound with authority (power), but as clear and articulate as possible. A pickup that makes me sound bad (i.e. makes flaws in technique very noticeable). One with a very sexy lead tone (more like Zaza) when used with Fender clean amps, or a high-gain type amplifier (Fender SuperSonic, Mesa, etc). I also am more traditional in that I play all my rhythms from the neck pickup, and almost all my leads from the bridge pickup.

If I go strictly by "How To Pick A Pickup" (tm) I would prefer vintage neck output but medium to high bridge output. I would prefer Alnico II simply because there is less string pull. However, this is negotiable because I know that (usually) Alnico II tends to have a more "bell curve" EQ (high mids, sloppy lows, round highs). I like that on single coils, but I don't know if I will like it with humbuckers.

All of these observations are incomplete, in the sense that I will again try stuff out tonight on my amp and see if I can get it the way I want it. Thanks for bearing with me, and thanks for reading all this.

For what it's worth, I tried a Fender American Standard Stratocaster and I absolutely loved the tone it gets in stock form. I don't know if this will help you understand how my ears work.

[super rad stuff]

wait, which guitar do you want to mod? and as for the jazz, i'd reccomend maybe putting an a3 magnet. compared to a2, it's a bit thinner with more treble.

[d1dsj]

wait, which guitar do you want to mod? and as for the jazz, i'd reccomend maybe putting an a3 magnet. compared to a2, it's a bit thinner with more treble.

I'm sure the Jazz is an A5?

[super rad stuff]

I'm sure the Jazz is an A5?

i know, but it's easier for me to compare a3 to a2

[Robert Delahunt]

wait, which guitar do you want to mod? and as for the jazz, i'd reccomend maybe putting an a3 magnet. compared to a2, it's a bit thinner with more treble.

Yeah the Jazz is an A5 in stock form. I want to mod the Schecter C-1 Classic, but when I sat down tonight and tweaked my sound, I think I got it to be at least more what I want, so I think for now I'll probably wait some more.

I'll probably install 250k pots in my Fender Lite Ash Stratocaster though. The 500k pots are nice and give it an extremely dynamic tone, but alas it's also way too peaky for anything but solo work. I find myself running the pots at half or lower all the time.

Still, thanks for the suggestions! I appreciate each and every one of you guys!

[hanumanlangur]

I think that oftentimes with humbuckers, parallel wiring is the way to really get that transparent sound. I haven't tried enough humbuckers in parallel to give any great recommendations for a bridge pickup, but in the neck position, a Jazz in parallel sounds really nice.

[Robert Delahunt]

I think that oftentimes with humbuckers, parallel wiring is the way to really get that transparent sound. I haven't tried enough humbuckers in parallel to give any great recommendations for a bridge pickup, but in the neck position, a Jazz in parallel sounds really nice.

Thanks for the reply, but I used to own a Fender Showmaster, and the '59 neck in parallel sounded like krap.

[super rad stuff]

bridge in parallel isn't all that. i have my a8 pearly gates in an sg wired up for parallel with 2 coil cuts, and i'm not all that into it. it's like using a coil cut minus the treble, and kinda muffly. but that's my experience with my guitar and particular pickup, you might not experience this with other stuff

[Kosh Naranek]

For more neutral and clear tones, I've found the following pickups are the best I've tried:
A Dimarzio D Activator neck in the bridge position. I haven't tried it in the neck position, but I imagine a pair of these in a guitar would sound amazing.

80's Ultrasonic Reference Series pickups. No longer made, occasionally available used. Very clean, neutral tone. Get the medium output or hot ones (Ref2 or Ref3). The vintage output model (Ref1) is very weak.

Duncan Livewires. You might try locating a Livewire Classic humbucker set for your humbucker equipped guitar. I'm not sure if they're even still made. Very clean, present tone. I just installed a set of three Livewire Classic single coils in a guitar. I love 'em!!

[uOpt]

I would prefer Alnico II simply because there is less string pull.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. The effective strength of A2 and A5 in humbucker-sized magnets is about the same. And that string pull theory is very shacky to boot.

However, this is negotiable because I know that (usually) Alnico II tends to have a more "bell curve" EQ (high mids, sloppy lows, round highs). I like that on single coils, but I don't know if I will like it with humbuckers.

Actually A5 does what you just described.

All of these observations are incomplete, in the sense that I will again try stuff out tonight on my amp and see if I can get it the way I want it. Thanks for bearing with me, and thanks for reading all this.

For what it's worth, I tried a Fender American Standard Stratocaster and I absolutely loved the tone it gets in stock form. I don't know if this will help you understand how my ears work.

Well, give that the Jazz wasn't clear enough I'd say the humbucker path is hopeless right there, unless it's really about some floppy lows, in which case an A2 PAF can help.

Have you tried P-90ties?

Why wouldn't you use a HSS guitar? Sounds like a Strat's middle-neck notch position is for you.

[Benjy_26]

I'd suggest a P Rails or a Phat Cat set low for what you're looking for in the neck.

[super rad stuff]

I'd suggest a P Rails or a Phat Cat set low for what you're looking for in the neck.

i've got a phatcat bridge model in a neck spot, and it sounds great! clear, articulate, transparent(depending on which magnets), all good stuff.

[Sanford]

Here's an alternative, not sure if it'll do exactly what you're looking for: Screaming Demon for the neck, Alt 8 for the bridge. Just throwing it out there as an idea.

[Robert Delahunt]

Thanks for all the replies, guys!

Well I decided that I liked my Jazz neck tone after I played around a bit with it. I think the clean tone is superb, so I tweaked my rig and now I think I have the problem handled, at least with my Schecter C-1 Classic. I guess it was me.

However, I will be switching pots on my Lite Ash Stratocaster, because 500k is just too punchy and bright with single coils. But I will keep the pickups. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

Still, just for the heck of discussion, is there a pickup set (both for HH and for SSS, since I actually don't like the SSH setup) that embodies the whole "loud, dynamic, and clear ... oh and did I mention loud?" type mentality? I was thinking that this would be a Full Shred set for HH and a Cool Rails set for SSS, but I'm not an expert. I absolutely love dynamic pickups though. Thanks!

Sanford: by the way, your avatar rocks! Go hypnotoad

[uOpt]

T
Still, just for the heck of discussion, is there a pickup set (both for HH and for SSS, since I actually don't like the SSH setup) that embodies the whole "loud, dynamic, and clear ... oh and did I mention loud?" type mentality?

Well, that's the C5, or a C8, or a PATB with A8, forgot the name, SD makes it. Higher Alnicos in Custom coils == no compression like ceramic and lots of kick.

Get get you sued on concerts

The '59 is a pickup like that, too.

[alex1fly]

Thanks for all the replies, guys!

Well I decided that I liked my Jazz neck tone after I played around a bit with it. I think the clean tone is superb, so I tweaked my rig and now I think I have the problem handled, at least with my Schecter C-1 Classic. I guess it was me.

This has been my method of tonal success lately - play around with it!

Try an A3 in your Jazz if you want more vintage character. I did this in one of my P90s and it made it chimier and less flat sounding.

[frankfalbo]

Some have mentioned the P-Rails, and yeah they are clear due to the "woofer/tweeter" aspect of the coil geometry. They are very clear in parallel but without the sterility of a traditional P.A.F. style HB in parallel.

The Livewire Classic II's, both the single coils and the humbuckers, are right in the vein of what you're talking about. They are loud and clean and clear, but without the "keyboard" dynamics of most active pickups played clean.

I also love the Screamin Demon/Alternative 8 passive combo.

[Robert Delahunt]

Some have mentioned the P-Rails, and yeah they are clear due to the "woofer/tweeter" aspect of the coil geometry. They are very clear in parallel but without the sterility of a traditional P.A.F. style HB in parallel.

The Livewire Classic II's, both the single coils and the humbuckers, are right in the vein of what you're talking about. They are loud and clean and clear, but without the "keyboard" dynamics of most active pickups played clean.

I also love the Screamin Demon/Alternative 8 passive combo.

Please pardon me, but I can't find the P Rails anywhere. What's the "P" stand for?

Also, I appreciate the LiveWire Classic II reference. I'd love to go active but I don't want to have to cut into my guitars, and right now is not the best time (as I'm in South Korea). Still, I would definitely like to try them out soon.

Ok, then, based on the other recommendation, I guess a Custom 5 is in order, at least in the bridge position.

Are you guys sure that the '59 seems more scooped than the Jazz? I've owned both and I could swear (at least to my ears) that the Jazz is more scooped, but alas it could be my ears....

[wanmei1]

Some have mentioned the P-Rails, and yeah they are clear due to the "woofer/tweeter" aspect of the coil geometry. They are very clear in parallel but without the sterility of a traditional P.A.F. style HB in parallel.

The Livewire Classic II's, both the single coils and the humbuckers, are right in the vein of what you're talking about. They are loud and clean and clear, but without the "keyboard" dynamics of most active pickups played clean.

I also love the Screamin Demon/Alternative 8 passive combo.

Frank you've lost me with some of your terminology.

When you say:... "sterility" of a trad. PAF style hbucker in parallel.
Are you referring to the acoustic like sound of these pups in parallel ?
To me sterility re pups means a lack of harmonics with a cold, clinical, non musical quality.

As a guitar and keyboard player, (piano ,synth) I'm guessing that when you say:... "keyboard dynamics", that means a loud and pronounced initial attack followed by a rapid decrease in volume ?

[frankfalbo]

Frank you've lost me with some of your terminology.

Ha, that's because I make up terminology sometimes. "Keyboard dynamics" to me refers to how you can hit a keyboard with a certain velocity and it's hard limited by the sample. In other words, there's only so much dynamic range in the trigger. So no, not a loud pronounced attack with a sharp drop off. That would be most "string" plucks. What I'm referring to is how some actives can chop off the tops of dynamics, like a hard limiter. So even when you really dig in, they just go "plink plink".

I only use the word sterile on a parallel wired P.A.F. style pickup because a lot of people find it dry and glassy. There's no bubble to it in the midrange when wired in parallel, because a lot of that midrange goodness is phase cancelled in parallel. Not so with the P-Rails, and that's the only point I was making about that.

Sorry for the confusion!