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Thread: Out of phase wiring.

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    Ultimate Tone Member LukeGilmour's Avatar
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    Default Out of phase wiring.

    suddenly i realized i love the out of phase sound... somewhat like freddie king in burglar.

    how do i manage to do that in my lp? do i just turn one of the humbuckers upside down? is it better to turn the bridge or the neck?

    any advice would be grateful

    thanks!

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    Skaforlifeologist super rad stuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    personally i'd either intall a phase switch or flip the magnet, but flipping the pickup around(wouldn't reccomend upside down) would work too.
    Yo, i'm Ryan™.
    Quote Originally Posted by lpmarshall View Post
    I've done this 3 times. I'm on my phone and drunk right now, so if I haven't responded by tomorrow bump this thread and I'll give you my input :-)

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    MonkeyDungologist dr. ad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    flipping the mag would be your best option IMO

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    Riffologist Extraordinaire GoDrex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    I find it easier to switch the green and black wires.

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    Skaforlifeologist super rad stuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoDrex View Post
    I find it easier to switch the green and black wires.
    that's a good way too, but i don't like doing that because it reverses which coil you go to when split(if you do use a split)
    Yo, i'm Ryan™.
    Quote Originally Posted by lpmarshall View Post
    I've done this 3 times. I'm on my phone and drunk right now, so if I haven't responded by tomorrow bump this thread and I'll give you my input :-)

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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.



    Why on earth would you go to all the trouble of flipping magnets when a simple switch will do the same thing AND allow you to turn it on and off?

    Phase switch is the answer you're looking for. Push-pull will save you from drilling a hole.

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    Toneologist NevermindUs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    i love that sound too. i flipped the wires so i get oop in the middle, since i never use the middle sound otherwise
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    Mojo's Minions DrNewcenstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by super rad ska View Post
    that's a good way too, but i don't like doing that because it reverses which coil you go to when split(if you do use a split)
    But then, wouldn't you also reverse the red and white for the split?

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Ashurbanipal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by NevermindUs View Post
    i love that sound too. i flipped the wires so i get oop in the middle, since i never use the middle sound otherwise
    Yea, I did the same thing just recently for the same reason - never really cared for the both 'buckers on sound. Now it's more useful and interesting - overall sound has more clang: low notes have a strong vowel-like quality to them and the high notes scream, particularly above the 12th fret. In single coil mode it's quite skeletal sounding, very interesting effect.

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    Ultimate Tone Member LukeGilmour's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    this is a little bit confusing, is there a diagram or something around please?

    (i guess just flipping the mic is the easiest way isnt it?)

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    MonkeyDungologist dr. ad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    if you're not confident doing the wiring, or don't have the tools, or don't want to either drill a new hole in your LP or sacrifice a tone pot - yep

    that's why i suggested it, i know it's lo-fi but i figured if you wanted a wiring solution you'd have either looked it up yourself or asked about it ; ]

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    Mojo's Minions DrNewcenstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeGilmour View Post
    this is a little bit confusing, is there a diagram or something around please?

    (i guess just flipping the mic is the easiest way isnt it?)

    Physically rotating the pickups (so the screws on top aren't by the bridge or neck) is not going to change anything except how far away from the bridge or neck the active coil will be when the pickup is Split.

    If you want the bridge and neck pickups to be out-of-phase with each other when the switch is in the center position, and your pickup has 4 conductors (red, white, green, and black), then swap the locations of the green and black wires for ONE pickup, not both.

    That means that if the Green wire of the bridge pickup is soldered to Ground and the Black is connected to the tab on the volume pot, put the Black wire on the Ground connection and the Green wire on the tab of the pot.

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    Skaforlifeologist super rad stuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewcenstein View Post
    But then, wouldn't you also reverse the red and white for the split?
    the standard way(split to slug) would be red/white to split, black to hot and green to ground. reversing black and green reverses phase and split to screw coil. to split to slug and still be OOP, what would have to happen for that is to send the black/green to the split switch, red to ground, and white to hot. to reverse phase and split to the screw coil, reverse the red to hot and white to ground.

    coil splitting(to clarify which coils/phase):
    http://www.seymourduncan.com/support...coil_splitting
    coil split w/OOP switches:
    http://www.seymourduncan.com/support..._coil_split_hb
    OOP switch:
    http://www.seymourduncan.com/support...itching_for_hb
    Yo, i'm Ryan™.
    Quote Originally Posted by lpmarshall View Post
    I've done this 3 times. I'm on my phone and drunk right now, so if I haven't responded by tomorrow bump this thread and I'll give you my input :-)

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    Baron Von Shred Zerberus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by super rad ska View Post
    personally i'd either intall a phase switch
    The standard solution, a push-pull or push-push pot makes this method the most non intrusive as well. Accomplishes the effect my changing the pickup´s electric phase relative to the other PU.

    Wiring Diagram: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support...itching_for_hb

    or flip the magnet, but flipping the pickup around(wouldn't reccomend upside down) would work too.
    Another common solution when one is versed in PU construction and 100% sure that everythiong else about the electornics setup is perfect. This reverses the Pickups magnetic field which in turn reverses it´s electrical phase.

    Quote Originally Posted by dr. ad View Post
    flipping the mag would be your best option IMO
    This will chance the sound of the pickup slightly and that´s it, has nothing to do with the pickup´s electrical or magnetic phase which ios what we want to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoDrex View Post
    I find it easier to switch the green and black wires.
    this is the simplest solution when it doesn´t need to be switchable and there are no other wiring tricks going on such as series/parallel or coil splits.
    Zerberus Industries: Where perfection isn't good enough.

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    Ultimate Tone Member LukeGilmour's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewcenstein View Post
    Physically rotating the pickups (so the screws on top aren't by the bridge or neck) is not going to change anything except how far away from the bridge or neck the active coil will be when the pickup is Split.

    If you want the bridge and neck pickups to be out-of-phase with each other when the switch is in the center position, and your pickup has 4 conductors (red, white, green, and black), then swap the locations of the green and black wires for ONE pickup, not both.

    That means that if the Green wire of the bridge pickup is soldered to Ground and the Black is connected to the tab on the volume pot, put the Black wire on the Ground connection and the Green wire on the tab of the pot.
    thanks, that was clear!

    thing is the pups are the stock ones on the guitar, and, guess what, 2 conductors.

    what to do?

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    Mojo's Minions DrNewcenstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Should just be able to swap the hot and ground, unless the ground is the outer metal braid, in which case, I have no idea.

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    Baron Von Shred Zerberus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewcenstein View Post
    Should just be able to swap the hot and ground, unless the ground is the outer metal braid, in which case, I have no idea.
    If its Vintage wire with braid and hot, then just swap those 2 around.

    If it´s 2 conductor + ground/shield, then swap the 2 conductors around
    Zerberus Industries: Where perfection isn't good enough.

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    Ultimate Tone Member LukeGilmour's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerberus View Post
    If its Vintage wire with braid and hot, then just swap those 2 around.

    If it´s 2 conductor + ground/shield, then swap the 2 conductors around
    thanks a lot!

    i swaped the braid and hot... works wonders, but theres not really much difference with the previous sound, am i missing something to get the "hollowness"? (besides a 335 guitar obviously!)

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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeGilmour View Post
    thanks a lot!

    i swaped the braid and hot... works wonders, but theres not really much difference with the previous sound, am i missing something to get the "hollowness"? (besides a 335 guitar obviously!)
    hi, the Haynes les paul manual (like a car mechanic manual for the guitar) says the the best way to get the 'hollowness' is to flip the magnet (out of phase) reverse the pickup in it's surround (semi phase corrected) and then reverse the green and black wires to wire it out of phase again.

    i'm doing it this week with my LP, i'll let you know how i get on...

    first post by the way! yaaaaay

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    Default Re: Out of phase wiring.

    BTW...Freddie was playing a 345/355 with a Varitone...

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