Work pet peeve # 2332344335234

[BigJoe77]

Zerb, I'm normally with you 1000%, but not on this one. For several reasons, but I'll just respond to your points with counterpoints...

"OMG, I`ll get behind if I stay home for a day"

1. NO thoughts of the colleages that you´ll infect, causing the whole COMPANY to slow down. Or the dozen other people that are now behind 2 days because you wouldn´t take one off like any sane person would have. Either way, the project is now behind schedule, meaning more work for EVERYBODY. Thanks

Since most of us don't live in communist countries (I assume) I don't really care if Jimmy or Bobby or Sue or whoever gets behind. They aren't sharing their paycheck with me. The day that everyone comes to work certified germ-free, disease-free, and outside drama-free, I'll totally agree with you. Until then, I have no guarantees that the cold I have came from the guy at work or the cart I pushed around the grocery store yesterday.

2. NO thoughts of the Hot chick that just got off sick leave that is going to be fired next week for being sick too often, after you infect her with your strain. Too bad her Husband got laid off last week becasue the auto industry sucks, and now they have to go on welfare soon with their 2 kids... If all goes bad, they´ll end up selling their home soon, because nobody really want´s to employ an aging man from a dinosaur of an industry, or for that matter a young mother that´s "constantly sick". Thanks

This hold no sway for me. If this was the only time she'd ever been sick, then that's not why she's being let go. If it's because she exceeded the limits of the company policy, it's because it maintains equity for everyone else in the office as well. Tying the failure of the auto industry to coming to work with a cold is sort of the untimate butterfly effect.

3. NO thoughts of the families of other co workers who also can be infected. You had the bird flu, and didn´t stay home at first because you "thought it was a cold"... And Dan´s 2 year old daughter is now in intensive care with a near zero survival chance, but you didn´t catch that because you stayed home after you had infected the whole office. Thanks.

Again, way stretching it here. Bird flu doesn't just appear out of nowhere. There is no logical reason for anybody to think, "I've got the sniffles, I wonder if it's bird flu." Correlation does not always equal causation.

The question here is: am I an ******* that doesn´t care, or am I worthy of the air I breathe

If these are the only options, then I guess my answer is yes to the former.

In this case, how do we know (as someone else mentioned) that Kaye doesn't have bad allergies? How do we know that she didn't just start cancer treatment that weakened her immune system? For that matter, how do we know that she doesn't have some other sort of immuno virus that makes her more vulnerable? There's a reason things like HIPPA laws exist in the US and it's because it's nobody's business but what is going on medically.

[pzaxtl]

Eat the most flatulent foods you can find, point your cannon toward her cubicle and let rip. When she complains, tell her that you're sick and can't help yourself. She'll get the point.

[lex666]

In this case, how do we know (as someone else mentioned) that Kaye doesn't have bad allergies? How do we know that she didn't just start cancer treatment that weakened her immune system? For that matter, how do we know that she doesn't have some other sort of immuno virus that makes her more vulnerable? There's a reason things like HIPPA laws exist in the US and it's because it's nobody's business but what is going on medically.

I respect all opinions posted here... And the above is a good point...

But I have to agree with Zerb's point. What if I'm the one with a weakened immune system or some sort of immuno virus? I came to work healthy today, but I could be in the hospital tomorrow just becuz someone didn't want to use their vacation time?

Regardless of what your reason is for being sick, you should avoid contact with others. If that means staying home at your expense, then do so. Its just a respect for other people thing.

[ginormous]

I've been in both situations (sick worker and healthy don't-want-the-germs worker), and can understand the rationale behind each.

Unfortunately, for the past 20 years or so, we've been in a state of affairs that demands increasing personal sacrifice. What used to merit paid sick leave only gets a cold stare from the boss, and a finger drawn across his throat if you don't produce.

No, it's not fair, and it's risky behavior for all concerned. But there are more companies willing to press for productivity instead of thinking about worker health & safety.

There's less paid vacation time, less sick days, and more people willing to work through illness, to hold on to jobs that are harder to come by.

We'll have to protect ourselves more diligently, in the presence of sick workers. I think Lex handled it quite well, and made sure management was aware of the risk, instead of throwing a hissy fit in front of snotgirl.

[LesStrat]

OTOH, Hobby Lobby just raised the minimum wage for their full-time employees. It's good to know there are some good guys in charge in some places.

They also have no long-term corporate debt.

[ImmortalSix]

Ilumped together our sick time and vacation time into a Paid Time Off (PTO) pool... Unfortunately this encourages people to come to work sick

Us too --- with 0 sick days and simple you-get-10 hours-per-month-accrued PTO, taking 8 hours off to sneeze and drink gatorade is exactly the same as taking 8 hours off to fly to Bermuda for the weekend.

It's just time that you're getting paid without being at work.

I used to have unlimited sick days at my old job, and nobody abused it. I guess we have to quantify everything these days because you can't trust the population at large to have an ounce of intelligence or integrity.

-Hunter

[BigJoe77]

But I have to agree with Zerb's point. What if I'm the one with a weakened immune system or some sort of immuno virus? I came to work healthy today, but I could be in the hospital tomorrow just becuz someone didn't want to use their vacation time?

Regardless of what your reason is for being sick, you should avoid contact with others. If that means staying home at your expense, then do so. Its just a respect for other people thing.

Very fair question as well. There are dozens of hypothetical combinations we could go down and all of them have very reasonable arguments on both sides. Maybe she's got legitimate reasons...maybe she's just a nut.

Personally, I'm much less concerned with sick people than I am the ones that bring their personal lives to work. I'd gladly trade the personal life drama ones for the ones with the colds and allergies. But I respect that it's a big deal for you. Sorry you have to work in uncomfortable conditions. (No sarcasm intended at all.)

[ibanezrocks]

The obvious solution is to kill all humans and incinerate their carcasses. I can't believe I even have to explain this to you.

How embarrassing. I must leave earth forever.

[Zerberus]

...
Since most of us don't live in communist countries (I assume) I don't really care if Jimmy or Bobby or Sue or whoever gets behind. They aren't sharing their paycheck with me. The day that everyone comes to work certified germ-free, disease-free, and outside drama-free, I'll totally agree with you. Until then, I have no guarantees that the cold I have came from the guy at work or the cart I pushed around the grocery store yesterday.

By that same logic, you also don´t care if Jimmy, Bobby or Sue get behind, as a result botch a new large customer, and thereby cost the company thosands to millions in revenue? I though part of working as a team was trying to achieve a common goal, in this case staying in business and growing as a commpany... I´ve seen illnesses botch high dollar (= multi million) business deals by some temp bringing in a flu that took out a key figure at the most unopportune time. Happened 3 times while I was working for GE, after that they sent written warnings out to ANYBODY that came in sick. 3 of those were a termination. But you shouldnt even have to see one to realize that you´re also directly putting your own job at risk. Companies don´t pay salaries after bankruptcy, and if it gets out of hand it´s not impossible by any means.

This hold no sway for me. If this was the only time she'd ever been sick, then that's not why she's being let go. If it's because she exceeded the limits of the company policy, it's because it maintains equity for everyone else in the office as well. Tying the failure of the auto industry to coming to work with a cold is sort of the untimate butterfly effect.

You missed the point. The point was that people that you do not work with or even know can be adversely affected, even have their lives destroyed, because someone´s negligent behavior produced the straw that broke the camel´s back.

Again, way stretching it here. Bird flu doesn't just appear out of nowhere. There is no logical reason for anybody to think, "I've got the sniffles, I wonder if it's bird flu." Correlation does not always equal causation.

Then I´ll use a differnet example: a wet cough. Is it from smoking, a flu, or something worse? The phlegm is the same color in many cases

To me it´s the same thing as driving while intoxicated, waving a loaded gun around on mainstreet, or tampering with someone`s food: you are knowingly putting others existence (financial or physical) at risk for no reason they would ever agree to, without their consent, and without any right to do so. And you´re doing it solely because YOU want to /feel it´s the more prudent choice to aid YOU. Any motivation is self centered, losing a job or having fewer days off are merely the excuses, because having 3 days more vacation in Tahiti is not worth risking another human.

Maybe it´s just me, But I feel that man shouldnt be complacent and lazy and just trty to get by with as little hassle as possible regardless tof the cost... after, taht mindset is exactly the reason the economy and envioronment are a fracked up as they are, because people did exactly this for centuries with no repercussions.

[LesStrat]

Point of clarification: The vast majority of the time that I work "ill" I KNOW it is seasonal allergies. Even so, I stay in my office rather than going into the schools. Other than Mondays, most of my coworkers are out of the office most of the day.

[That90'sGuy]

My boss doesn't believe in giving his employees sick time. I need money. So, come hell or high water, I'm at work. He kinda fails to see that he's paying for someone who can't give him his money's worth on those days, plus getting other people sick is also losing him more money, but common sense has never been an integral part of the company I work for.

[BigJoe77]

Wow Zerb. I admire your altruism. I've never personally worked at a place where coming to work sick was considered taboo for my type of position. Usually the unspoken rule of thumb was if you were healthy enough to call in sick, you were healthy enough to come in. I think it's pretty cool that you've worked in places where that was the policy. I don't think it's self centered, negligent, complacent or lazy to go to work when sick. Frankly, it's a heck of a lot easier to stay home than go to work any day of the week, sick or healthy.

My other argument against it is that colds and flus typically come in waves. They're viral or bacterial and spread among populations in a multiplicative pattern. Typically people that work together will, depending on the location, go to the same places for lunch, the same gas stations, the same drug stores. It goes back to my correlation and causation comment.

I'm all for people being responsible and logical. I just find it difficult to define responsible and logical for everyone with the same brush. Oh well...agree to disagree.

[Zerberus]

^^