opinions wanted

[Aceman]

The band teacher thing just suggests systemic rot IMO. As long as the kid is ok - let others handle it. If you are outraged, others are too. You just have to use the subtle "Man - I wish I could say something, but my wife works in the system." Others that hear of your dissatisfaction will be strengthened. Someone will do something!

[3'scompany]

What do you think is actually going to happen to your children if you have calm, casual conversation about the movie and the creationism stuff with the principle?

I keep hearing from members how school politics suck, and to be careful, but what would happen? I'm not saying that repercussions for your children could not happen, but I'm just really curious to know what you fear happening.

Generally, from my second-hand experience (my dad was on the school board in my district for many years and my mother is a junior high teacher) the politicing affects and is between faculty and administration, its not conspiracy plots to make students' lives hell. However, if that really is the case in your sons' school, you should get them out.

When I was going to school, the administration and teachers didn't particularly like parents that were habitual complainers. They didn't mind legitimate concerns though. And food for thought here, those habitual complainers, even though they were not generally liked, were listened to and what they said was taken to heart (so long as it was reasonable) so the school wouldn't have to worry about the parents coming back and complaining more. And were their students punished? You can bet your ass not. In fact, I can think of more than a few who ended up being valedictorians of our high school...

Let me reiterate, I don't think you're necessarily off base in being concerned, but what are you thinking will happen, and as importantly, what evidence do you have to suggest this?

[tone4days]

What do you think is actually going to happen to your children

fair question

the risk, as i see it, is pissing off people (even if i am totally calm, cool, reasonable, etc) ... and these are people who can effect my kid's grades through subjective grading ... these are people who might be needed to write letters of recommendation for college ... these are people who have to approve the students to take upper level classes (AP / GT) ... i also do not put it outside the realm of possibility that the teachers would use the info to cause social turbulence for my kids among their peers ...

now, do i have evidence that they definitely WOULD exact retribution? ... no, i do not because my son is only a freshman so we havent gotten a complete lay of the land ... anecdotes from parents of older students suggest it isnt out of the realm of possibility ... and frankly, i am of the opinion that someone who would be so bold as to introduce creationism illegally into a science class is not going to be the fair-minded, let bygones be bygones, type when you call them on it ...

i have been around enough teachers to know that many of them are little napoleon types who guard their 'power' quite jealously and do not like having their authority / conduct questioned

i am confident that it represents non-zero risk to raise my concerns ... i just don't know how much greater thanzero and how it would be made manifest ... and i do know that it exists no matter how nice i am about it all

[3'scompany]

Tough situation.

Do you think you could talk to the principle in person, yet request that you remain anonymous for your kid's sake when the hammer falls on those in the wrong? Could be a long-shot, but I'd say that might be the best option.

Best of luck to you though.

[tone4days]

Tough situation.

Do you think you could talk to the principle in person, yet request that you remain anonymous for your kid's sake when the hammer falls on those in the wrong? Could be a long-shot, but I'd say that might be the best option.

Best of luck to you though.

yeah - i think that will be the best approach - and i think that by stressing that we do not want him to 'punish' the people but rather just want him to be aware and see to it that it doesnt happen any more we might diminish some of the negativity

we'll se
thanks
t4d

[3'scompany]

yeah - i think that will be the best approach - and i think that by stressing that we do not want him to 'punish' the people but rather just want him to be aware and see to it that it doesnt happen any more we might diminish some of the negativity

we'll se
thanks
t4d

That sounds like a wise approach.

I wish you luck!

[threechordcharlie]

Without visiting banned topics, I'll just say that IMHO, public schools are not what they were when I was young. They don't stand for, nor do they uphold, the U.S. that I believe in. (and no, that US isn't one in which certain beliefs are force fed to the masses.) How about moral issues like right and wrong. Oh yeah, it's hard to get the directions correct with no moral compass. So, what if we ALL got together and mapped out a new moral code for the country? I'm not talking about one that refers to God or anything like that. All that I am saying is that if one is removed, it must be replaced by another. If we don't do it quick, someone will do it for us.

[glassman]

Without visiting banned topics, I'll just say that IMHO, public schools are not what they were when I was young. They don't stand for, nor do they uphold, the U.S. that I believe in. (and no, that US isn't one in which certain beliefs are force fed to the masses.) How about moral issues like right and wrong. Oh yeah, it's hard to get the directions correct with no moral compass. So, what if we ALL got together and mapped out a new moral code for the country? I'm not talking about one that refers to God or anything like that. All that I am saying is that if one is removed, it must be replaced by another. If we don't do it quick, someone will do it for us.

My entire primary education took place in parochial schools…if you think that they are any different you are grossly mistaken. All of what T4D describes in his original post took place there too. The difference is that the parochial system is capable of sweeping such activities under the rug without detection.

I recall a certain 8th grade teacher (and God-status footfall coach) that had been fondling girls for years. When the complaint made it to the administrative level, their reaction was to move him to the 4th grade. He enjoyed a full career and is happily retired now…I often wonder what happened to his victims.

[ErikH]

I didn't read all 4 pages, just the OP so I don't get skewed by what others say. As to the 2 recent events, skip the principal, talk to the school superintendent if possible. If not, then speak to the principal, in person. Letters get read and tossed. Face to face will somewhat force them to take things in to consideration.

As for the past events, that's a heck of a lot going in a high school but in major metropolitan areas, some of those are very hard to get away from. The only way to get away from those without having security guards on patrol would be to move to a small town that doesn't believe we are in a recession (more or less doesn't pay attention to things outside their borders). I worry about what things will be like when my daughter reaches high school. As a parent, the best I can do as long as we are living where we are is to make sure she is well educated on such things and has good morals, values and a strong faith.

[threechordcharlie]

glassman,
I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about the fear of suffering consequences for our actions, here and now, at the hands of authorities.

[Ninja Monkey]

i'm gonna go out on a limb here and be honest, i am a christian who does not think that creationism needs to be taught in the public school system (weird, huh?) i think faith issues should be taught in church, or mosque or more preferably the home. To put my 2 cents in i think that the teacher who passed out these creationism papers must be reprimanded for not a least asking the consent of the parents (that's why the invented permission slips people). Sure there is freedom of religion, but since this teaching has been deemed unconstitutional by the courts then until its overturned or what ever all christians must abide by the laws of the land. This teacher seriously overstepped his/her boundaries. (sorry i got a bit upset, people like that give christians a bad name)
also i would try to contact the principal about some of the other issues and see what his/her response to them is. If he patronizes you, take it to the next level, until you reach the media as a last resort. You don't want our kids to be taunted at school, or treated like narcs.

+1

[Carl762]

as for repercussions, we are even more concerned about 6 years of troubles for our kids more than my wife's situation ... we can choose our battles after weighing consequences we are willing to face for ourselves ... but choosing negative consequences that could rain down on our sons' education is vastly more troubling to ponder

Yes, back to my thoughts about this. I’ll add: write a letter to the Board, citing your concerns. Send it regular and certified mail, return receipt requested. They’ll be forced to take it seriously. Be anonymous. For the following reason(s):

have been around enough teachers to know that many of them are little napoleon types who guard their 'power' quite jealously and do not like having their authority / conduct questioned

Yes, precisely.

Please do take action. If it gets to be too much for you to handle, go in person, make appointment. Discuss all your fears, concerns. Document everything. Dates, times, who, etc.

Crappy situation you have there. Where??????

[tone4days]

thanks for the insights all ... apreciate the range of opinions and questions back to me - helped us think it further on down the line

just to be clear, in closing ... i know we have it dang good when it comes to public schools as compared to the struggles faced in all too many communities ... the problems i have noted are serious, but rare ... that said, i think that maintaining quality and leaving the system in better shape when we are done with it than it was when we entered is a good goal .... that is why we are exercised about this stuff

cheers
t4d

[Gearjoneser]

Bill, since your writing is articulate and intelligent, I'd go that route first. I'd save the idea of a meeting till later - like if the Principal calls you to talk.

I'm a big fan of letters because it allows you to arrange your thoughts and hit every point you can think of. And sign it. If it's calm, rational, and sounds more like a solution rather than criticism, the Principal is likely to take you seriously and appreciate your input. There shouldn't be any repercussion from a well written letter, voicing your concerns. And you can even mention that in your letter - that you don't want teachers to be aware of which child's family has the issue.

Definitely don't take the bombastic, critical, or demanding standpoint by firing off other letters, involving the media, or trying to take it higher than the Principal at this time. THAT is what will cause a backlash and a general dislike for you and your family. Just be calm and cool about it all, but very direct. Start with the signed letter to the Principal, with your phone number at the bottom.

[LesStrat]

It's also harder to deny knowledge when informed in writing.

[DLT]

I am probably on tone4's ignore list, but I will post this anyway. The best thing I did was pull my daughter from a public school and put her in a charter school.

She went from making C's and D's to A's and B's. They met her IEP goals.

She is graduating from Kendall Art College tomorrow. One of the higher ups in the administration looked at her work and said probably the best stuff that EVER came out of the college!

I am proud as all heck man!!!! If it were not for Black River Public/Charter School, it would not have happened. She probably would have dropped out or flunked out of school.

Oh yeah...she easily kept a 3.0 to receive her scholarships too. DLT loves Charter Schools who focus on the academics instead of sports.

[cream123]

my high school is in the top 100 across the nation. Now, that said. we've had kids dealing at school, consensual sex in the handicap elevators (between non handicapped), a stabbing, several suicides (some of which I knew, others I didn't), kids sitting in the hallways that are outcasts, etc. battles between bloods and crips happen, etc.

just because you have a good school academically, you don't necessarily have a great social scene. Now the kids here are nice, don't get me wrong but there are issues like anywhere else. To go through such drastic measures to deal with things that seem unending seems a bit ridiculous. its all part of a taste of later life...I guess.

btw, I fully support your decision to not go to private...I never did meet a private school kid that wasn't a rich prick...

[Falstaff]

Wow. There was a murder at our local (fancy) high school a couple of years ago and it appears that the administration wants to brush all of the issues under the rug to protect the school 'culture.'

I would recommend a meeting with the principal and active involvement in any school committee proceedings (if there is an elected school committee). Schools tend to circle their wagons in the face of problems so it is best to chip away at the issues from within if possible. That being said, if you have a relatively sleazy local paper or news channel they might enjoy the "rich kids gone wild" theme and be willing to publicize what is going on at the school as being some sort of epidemic of issues rather than a series of unrelated incidents. You can always drop a dime sub rosa to one of them.

Good luck, bud.

[MikeS]

I never understood anonymity... it's a great way to insure you won't truly be heard.

My first reaction would be to schedule a meeting with the principal as a concerned parent. Try to get to know the new principal and hear his plans (if any) to minimize the occurrences is both severity and frequency. Many issues sound like they derive from a lack of suitable punishment at the school level, and a new regime may have plans to improve the situation.

What kind of buzz is there from the teachers? Teachers band together very well, and if there's anything I've learned from working with school districts it's that teachers, as a unified group, have a lot of influence.

Editorials and the superintendent/board would not be the first place I'd suggest contacting. There's way too much politics involved in a school boards. Even if you were to gather other concerned parents to call on a school board meeting, a board would instantly take a defensive position. What I might do, however, is to sit in on a school board meeting and at least attempt to see if there is anything being done at that level. I don't know how your state schools operate, but in Ohio public school board meetings are required to be advertised and open to the public.

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

this right here is enough reason to pull your kid out and burn the school down.

+1