Trem Blocks - Brass vs. Steel

[ErikH]

So, what's the tonal difference between the two?

I'm looking at possibly replacing the block in one of my Strats. Haven't totally decided yet. I have a brass block on one of my Floyd equipped Strats and love it. I have a Gotoh vintage trem with what I believe is a steel block and I love it too. But, I never have heard a steel and brass block in the same guitar to be able to compare any differences.

Share your experiences/opinions/verbal spewage (LOL).

[XSSIVE]

i've found that the tone of the blocks pretty much goes hand in hand with the density of the metals. brass is a softer metal so you get a warmer rounder tone yet it does have a bell like ring or chime to it so they certainly aren't dull. steel is a much harder metal so it's a bit brighter a bit harsher yet a bit more articulate due to that added bite but it doesn't have that round bottom brass has which is IMO always a plus. i haven't tried a titanium block myself but i'd be willing to guess they're brighter than steel. this is why zinc blocks and pot metal blocks all suck. they don't ring they just thud and sound muted and dull. if you drop a zinc block on the floor it will thud and hardly ring. if you drop brass it will ring almost musically. if you drop steel you'll cringe at the harsh bright sound it will make that will ring out for quite a while. IMO brass blocks are the best in nearly every situation from floyds to vintage strat trems to modern 2 point strat trems, they just round things off and aren't as harsh as steel and are more musical to my ears.

-Mike

[Ashurbanipal]

Yet Titanium is quite light in comparison to the other alternatives mentioned, and it's not an extremely dense element (less so than iron and various steels) - has an excellent strength to weight ratio. Common alloys are aluminium, iron, and some others.

It must be noted that density and hardness are not synonymous when it comes to metals - density is more to do with how many atoms are packed in per centimetre cubed. E.g. Mercury is denser than Iron and Titanium, but it's liquid at room temperature; Copper is also denser than Iron and Titanium, but it's quite soft.

So what would Titanium mean in terms of tone - transparency, perhaps; similar in principle to what an aluminium (another low density element) tailpiece does on a fixed bridge guitar, remember the ravings of LP zealots after switching their stock tailpiece for a vintage-correct aluminium one? One important thing regarding a bridge, IMO, is something that does not interfere too much with the strings and the body.

You can also experiment with saddles too. I think Eric Johnson has used brass saddles on the top string of his Strats to even out the tone, i.e. rein in the harshness.

All this is a simplification, I expect there are other variables involved which my ignorance of physics and chemistry prevents me from seeing and making conclusions. Though I wish I had the $$ and time to be dropping different trem blocks on the floor like XSSIVE in the name of tone and science .

Thou brass users - what freq would you say the stuff emphasizes?

[Benjy_26]

Consider this verbal spewage:

I don't know about blocks, but barrel saddles on a tele folow pretty closely what Xsessive pointed out. Oddly enough, though, I like steel better than brass on my tele's. Steel sounds snappier and twangier to me.

[ErikH]

Anybody else? Surely with all the tone experts around here there has to be more opinions on this.

[GoDrex]

Callaham says cold rolled steel is the only material to use for trem blocks.

[ErikH]

Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?

[Jet-Jaguar]

Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?

I don't per say, but I do have a semi-related question: why are bells made of brass instead of steel? Is it just cheaper, is there more sustain, or what? Same question for brass instruments.

[ErikH]

I don't per say, but I do have a semi-related question: why are bells made of brass instead of steel? Is it just cheaper, is there more sustain, or what? Same question for brass instruments.

Good question. I do know that brass is a very musical metal. I don't know if that is all that there is to it and why it's used for brass instruments. I'm curious to know myself.

I'd really like some more feedback on this subject. With all the talk about trem blocks on here and getting them from this guy, or that guy, surely there are more opinions.

[the guy who invented fire]

The Gotoh bridge is likely not steel so this comparison might not hold water but if you have a true steel block and a brass block the brass block will have a softer tone and will be a little slower in it's attack and I think they have less sustain as well...

[mudpuppy]

I don't per say, but I do have a semi-related question: why are bells made of brass instead of steel? Is it just cheaper, is there more sustain, or what? Same question for brass instruments.

It can't be price. Brass is way more expensive than steel.

[Stratman]

Callaham says cold rolled steel is the only material to use for trem blocks.

Callaham is not telling specifics! Most steel plate is cold rolled... Some Fender blocks were cast steel, not rolled plate as the originals ones were and was due to 1950's economics.

Metallurgically, clarification of "COLD ROLLED STEEL" is needed, as follows:

Cold rolling is a metalworking process in which metal is deformed by passing it through rollers at a temperature below its recrystallization temperature.

Cold rolling increases the yield strength and hardness of a metal by introducing defects into the metal's crystal structure.

Cold rolling is most often used to decrease the thickness of plate and sheet metal from ingots.

Cold rolled metal is given a rating based on the degree it was cold worked. "Skin-rolled" metal undergoes the least rolling, being compressed only 0.5-1% to harden the surface of the metal and make it more easily workable for later processes. Higher ratings are "quarter hard," "half hard" and "full hard"; in the last of these, the thickness of the metal is reduced by 50%.

Cold rolling of steel is a common manufacturing process. It is often used to form sheet metal. Beverage cans are closed by rolling, and steel food cans are strengthened by rolling ribs into their sides. Rolling mills are commonly used to precisely reduce the thickness of strip and sheet metals.

[ErikH]

I'm pretty sure my Gotoh bridge block is steel.

I've seen the killerguitarcomponents.com stuff and am curious about them. They're the only place I could find that makes replacement brass blocks for Strat bridges. Everything else is for a Floyd.

I'm curious to know how that works out, wolf. Keep me posted.

[wolf5150]

A good friend has used their Floyd blocks and he's totally stunned.

He's the reason I've made my decision.

We've exchanged many e mails about my requirements and i've found them prompt, polite and accomodating, that bodes very well in my opinion.

Will post my findings asap.

[GoDrex]

I ordered a Callaham bridge for my strat - maybe I'll get a brass block for it and try to compare.

edit - now that I think of it I probably won't be able to use the brass one with the bar I get from Calaham - not sure though.

[loudriver23]

I've seen several places that sell the steel blocks, but where can I go to look at the brass ones?

[ErikH]

I've seen several places that sell the steel blocks, but where can I go to look at the brass ones?

http://www.killerguitarcomponents.com/

[octavedoctor]

THe physics of it is quite complex. There are several factors to the equation.

Density: Density directly influences the weight of the block and therefore the "pendulum bob" effect. This has more effect than you might think as the weight of the block acts as a buffer between the springs and the strings, damping the movement of the bridge and allowing or preventing energy from the strings being dissipated in the shock absorbent effect of the springs. Basically, the lighter the block, the less effective it is at preventing harmonic energy from being dissipated.

Ductility (Hardness): This affects the restitution characteristics of the material. The co-efficient of restitution is the ratio of energy in to energy out. The lower the C of R is the more energy is lost through contact with the material at each vibration cycle. As a rule, the more ductile a material is, the lower its co-efficient of restitution and the less sustain it supports. This will also affect the tone as harmonics will respond differently to the restitution characteristics of the material.

Mass: The pendulum bob thing again. It's pointless having a brass block if you make it so small it has very little mass

Geometry: A shaped block such as on a US strat is less efficient at buffering/damping than a rectangular block because the centre of mass is raised closer to the trem pivot.

Elasticity: This is easily confused with the restitution characteristics and they are closely related.

There are also issues such as whether a material is cast or forged as many of the above characteristics are dependent on "process" factors. Cast material may be lighter and stiffer than forged or drawn materials with lower ductility and reduced mass but higher stiffness.

[ErikH]

Thanks for that explanation, Doc. Physics, or science in general, wasn't my best subject but I think I get what you are saying here.

Correct me I'm wrong on this. The more dense, harder and greater mass, the better the block will serve it's purpose. Is that right? Or is it really all dependent on the material used?

[octavedoctor]

Thanks for that explanation, Doc. Physics, or science in general, wasn't my best subject but I think I get what you are saying here.

Correct me I'm wrong on this. The more dense, harder and greater mass, the better the block will serve it's purpose. Is that right? Or is it really all dependent on the material used?

That's kind of it, although you can't necessarily get all of those parameters maxed out.

Lead, for example is much more dense than brass, but is too soft and ductile to provide the mechanical support for resonance. That's obviously an extreme example for illustrative purposes, you couldn't even start to make a trem block out of lead.