why Hot pups?

[Christopher Caruana]

Ok, this maybe a real noob question........but........how did hot pickups get started? or what was the point of having "hot" pickups? were they mainly created to push non master volume amps into overdrive?

thanks
chris

[oilpit]

DiMarzio became known for its Super Distortion model, which was the first after market replacement guitar pickup available to the mass market. It is still one of the most popular models.

The Super Distortion pickup produced a higher electrical output than the pickups normally fitted as standard to guitars at the time. It has around twice the impedance of a PAF type pickup, and a stronger ceramic magnet. This drove the input stage of guitar amplifiers with roughly twice as much voltage as a PAF pickup, so that an overdriven distorted sound was easier to obtain.

.

[jafo]

Plus, it's a different tone to begin with -- darker, thicker, yadda yadda.

[flieger67]

The higher output pickups gave players a little more sustain and overdrove the input stages of the amp a little more. Consider it a quest for sustain and "gain" that evolved (or devolved) into high-gain amps.

Interestingly, some amps don't necessarily work well with high-output pickups. I've read opinions from a number of people that super-hot pickups can sound pretty bad with vintage Marshalls from the mid-to-late sixties, for instance.

[open]

Ok, this maybe a real noob question........but........how did hot pickups get started? or what was the point of having "hot" pickups? were they mainly created to push non master volume amps into overdrive?

thanks
chris

I think that was pretty much the concept behind that,overloading the signal.

[Christopher Caruana]

I think that was pretty much the concept behind that,overloading the signal.

so they were originaly made to overload low gain amps? So did metal players just put high output pickups and high output amps together?

[blueman335]

There's a lot of reasons for a hot bridge. One is the extra warmth that location needs (it tends to be a weak, thin, and sharp position due to the lack of string energy that close to the bridge). The extra windings also give it more volume, so that it balances better with the neck. If both PU's have the same output, the neck will be louder (more string energy) and may overpower the bridge.

Of course there's the "degree" of hotness, whether wound several hundred ohms more than the neck (recent PAF style), or several thousand more. Everything else being equal, more windings mean more output & mids, and less treble and clarity. You get a more open, clear tone with a mildly hot bridge, and a darker, compressed tone with a very hot one. All depends on what you want.

[rashayritto]

these days, when many amps have TOO MUCH gain on tap, there are still other reasons for using high output pickups. i usually adjust my amp's input volume to suit the guitar so i dont use high output HB's to get more gain than my single coils. It really changes the experience altogether but i dont think i know how to identify the difference and put it in words other than "its different"

that said, i prefer hot pups even though i dont consider my tone "high gain"

[Jackson Distortion]

So did metal players just put high output pickups and high output amps together?

We're called Metal players. Molten steel is the order of the day! Deafend ears, blown speakers, broken strings, snapped plectrums, broken fists, tipped amps,...

[DrNewcenstein]

...dragging knuckles.....

J/K


But high-powered pickups don't sound good with vintage Marshalls? Someone will have to define "good" here, since those are the exact amps that high-gain pickups were designed to help.


I guess it depends on what you're going for - you're not going to get Puppets tone from it, but you should certainly get Into The Arena?

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Not as much as in "hot" but what frequency they are boosting, namely the mids.
You can have very "hot" wounded pickups, that will sound open and wide depending on what wire you use, and as everybody should know, mids makes things sounds louder, but also makes the sounds more pushy and in some cases even feels like the eardrums are being pushed inwards....ouch...like a Tubescreamer on a loud old Marshall can do...

[rowdy27]

It's all about fuzzy distortion & searing highs & meaty mids.

[VACharvel]

Personally, I think the lower output pickups sound better than a high output pickup....they were originally designed to push the front end of a non-master-volume head to make it easier for the preamp to distort sooner than a lower output pickup.

Most modern amps have an over-abundance of gain available coupled with a master-volume unless it's a actual Plexi or other lower-gain amp.

I think lower output pickups retain more clarity throughout the voicing of the pickup vice a higher output one...

I'd rather have the amp do the work vice the guitars pickups...there are many more excellent overdrive and distortion devices today than when there were in the 70's. Amp technology has came a long way also...instead of distortion being a weird by-product and accident, amps are now designed with that in mind over their vintage bretherin of the past.

Example: Both Malcolm and Angus Young have some of the best recorded and live tones out there and their guitars sound HUGE wtih clarity and definition using vintage pickups and old Marshall's. Beauty in simplicity.

[SlowGroove]

so they were originaly made to overload low gain amps? So did metal players just put high output pickups and high output amps together?

YUP, that is how i see it !

Wonder how the first Led Zep and Sabbath albums would have sounded if there where Black Outs back in 1968.

Maybe that is a good thing !
Saying that, Black Out's into my cranked Bassman is not a bad tone - at all !!!


James

[super rad stuff]

YUP, that is how i see it !

Wonder how the first Led Zep and Sabbath albums would have sounded if there where Black Outs back in 1968.

Maybe that is a good thing !
Saying that, Black Out's into my cranked Bassman is not a bad tone - at all !!!


James

actually, i wonder how those old records would sound if they had the kind of amps they've got nowadays, as opposed to modern pickups

these days there's an overabundance of high output pickups despite the fact that what they were originally created to "solve" had been solved long ago.

i agree with VACharvel on low output pickups though, there's much more clarity and dynamics to be had.

[SlowGroove]

Personally, I think the lower output pickups sound better than a high output pickup....they were originally designed to push the front end of a non-master-volume head to make it easier for the preamp to distort sooner than a lower output pickup.

Most modern amps have an over-abundance of gain available coupled with a master-volume unless it's a actual Plexi or other lower-gain amp.

I think lower output pickups retain more clarity throughout the voicing of the pickup vice a higher output one...

I'd rather have the amp do the work vice the guitars pickups...there are many more excellent overdrive and distortion devices today than when there were in the 70's. Amp technology has came a long way also...instead of distortion being a weird by-product and accident, amps are now designed with that in mind over their vintage bretherin of the past.

Example: Both Malcolm and Angus Young have some of the best recorded and live tones out there and their guitars sound HUGE wtih clarity and definition using vintage pickups and old Marshall's. Beauty in simplicity.

Very Well Said Sir



. . . also, it makes you wonder why they looked at hotter pick-ups to drive the front nd of the amp, 'cause even back in the early 70's they allready had boost pedals and fuzz units.
Why did they not look into developing the boost units of the day even more, as it can drive an amp much more than a DiMarzio Super Dist. ever can.


James

[SlowGroove]

actually, i wonder how those old records would sound if they had the kind of amps they've got nowadays, as opposed to modern pickups

these days there's an overabundance of high output pickups despite the fact that what they were originally created to "solve" had been solved long ago.

i agree with VACharvel on low output pickups though, there's much more clarity and dynamics to be had.

Jimmy Page playing on a Mesa Boogie MK4 on Led Zep I . . . mmmmm, donno about that one !

Tony Iommi playing through a 5150 in 1961 . . . might be too tight of a tone !

BUT, Lynyrd Skynyrd using Mesa Trip Rec's on their 1st album, mmmmm, would have loved to hear that one


James

[VACharvel]

Well, in the mid-late 70's, they did have fuzz boxes, and a few others, but the technology was very young. Also, I think that to a degree, natural tube overdrive and distortion were a accident, meaning, when they originally designed the amps, distortion was not a wanted effect.

The original amp designs by Leo Fender and Marshall are still, for the most part, circuits that still exist today in various forms...the technology has expanded, but the basic principle has remained consistant.

When replacement pickups were first introduced, probably the first to really gain any momentum was the DiMarzio pickups. It was far easier to add a new pickup vice have somebody tinker with a amp then IMO.

I remember reading a article when Zakk Wylde met up with the guitar-players from Skynyrd in one of the magazines, and Gary Rossington said something to the effect that when they were coming up playing Les Paul's etc. if your pickup fried, there were no replacement pups..you had to salvage parts from another Les Paul. Amazing.

[super rad stuff]

Jimmy Page playing on a Mesa Boogie MK4 on Led Zep I . . . mmmmm, donno about that one !

Tony Iommi playing through a 5150 in 1961 . . . might be too tight of a tone !

BUT, Lynyrd Skynyrd using Mesa Trip Rec's on their 1st album, mmmmm, would have loved to hear that one


James

more along the lines of led zep I being played through something like a jsx mini, or other easily modded low wattage amps

[rowdy27]

BurstBucker Pro's rock!