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Thread: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    i usually run gt6v6s in my old dr but i figured id try the tung sols. they sound much different, a little more fendery than the jj's. i usually run the jj's biased pretty hot with no issues but at similar settings the plates on the tung sols were blazing hot red. now ive got em dialed in so they arent cooking but the voltage is about 450v on the plates. any one else tried the tung sol 6v6 in a high voltage amp?

    im thinking im going to go back to the jjs for the dr and put the tung sols in my 5e3 clone where the voltages are lower

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    Moe's Bluesman Curly's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    I like 'em -- they're more like the old 6V6s. (small and sweet)

    JJ's are stout, but to me, quite a bit different - I'm not saying bad or good, but it depends on the application.

    then the EH -- Jeff Snider says they're really more like an EL-34 ???

    I'm using the tung sols in a couple of amps - a Blue Angel and my Mission 5E3.
    I may have 'em in my DRRI, but now you have me thinkin' about putting the JJs back in ... you can run 'em fairly hot and not worry about it.
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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    im worried about the 450v on the plates of those tung sols, i know the jj's will handle it but a real 6v6gt isnt rated anywhere near that high and id rather not cook them in a few weeks.

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    Fuzzy. Guitars the guy who invented fire's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    Wow...450v...thats high even for a DR...a buddy of my dads used to have a 66 DR and it has aroudn 425 on the plates and I thought that was high.

    The JJ 6V6's are actually much closer to old school 7591's that true 6V6's...I tried them in both my brown deluxe and my Ampeg Jet...didn't care for them...I lost some of the sweetness that I love about 6V6's.

    I think the Tung Sols will hold up (despite the 450 volts!) and overall I like the sound of them...
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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    i like the sound too but im worried about them not living very long. when i biased the amp where i usually had it at 425v the plates were glowing red. obviously not a good thing so i lowered the bias. by the time the plates stopped glowing i was at about 440v and i wanted to give a little breathing room (i dont bias by voltage but those are the only numbers i can remember off the top of my head) so i dropped it another ~1 ma

    im disapating 9w a tube which is high but not too high at the 450v with i think 21 or 22 ma

    while i like the jj i dont think they sound all that much like a classic 6v6 either which is why i was trying the tung sols. the amp is a '66 dr with stock power tranny

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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    The JJ's are closer to a 6l6 or el34 from what I have read. Not really a 6v6 in the traditional sense.
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    9 watts per tube sounds fine for slightly hot Class A/B push-pull on 6V6GT tubes. The Tung Sol data sheet shows 315 volts as the max "Design Center" plate voltage, but Leo's schematic shows 415 volts on the plates.

    What's another 35 volts among friends? I've been running Tung Sol 6V6s in a Princeton Reverb with about 430 on the plates and 22ma of cathode current (roughly 9.5 watts, but that includes the screens).

    I experimented with several new 6V6s in a Tweed Princeton and really liked the Tung Sols. Don't worry - be happy!

    Chip

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    Tone Member Southbound Suarez's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    I have a Fender 66' Blackface Deluxe Reverb with Tung Sol 6V6's installed. A buddy of mine set the bias using the book "Inside Tube Amps" by Dan Torres that contain bias tables in the back of the book. I've determined from looking at my version of the same book that Dan Torres uses a 60% static dissipation recommendation for the low end limits and a 70% static dissipation for the high end limits. I believe if you set the static dissipation at the (low end limit) of 60%, you should be just fine. The only other tube (other than NOS) that I ever cared for in this amp were the Russian black coated 6V6's. The Russian 6V6's have a black coating all around the inside of the tube except for the dome area. I used to buy the Russian 6V6's years ago when I had an account with ICC (International Components Corporation). They are still made and available today, and have been compared to the old RCA 6V6 black plate tubes.

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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    i used to have some of those old black russian tubes. wonder if i still do...

    The JJ's are closer to a 6l6 or el34 from what I have read. Not really a 6v6 in the traditional sense.
    thats funny cause i dont think 6l6's or el34's sound much alike at all. i think everyone will agree that the jjs sure dont sound like a set of old brimars, rca, or phillips

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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    A word of caution about those Russian 6V6's: they don't operate well at the voltages that DR's typically operate in (~420 volts) and had a tendency to short out immediately.

    Jeremy; something sounds fishy with your DR. 450 volts on the plates and 30 volts of envelope at idle doesn't sound right at all, under any circumstances.

    Jerry

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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    i should mention that the trem circut is disconnected and v1 and the trem tube are pulled which frees up a little current. the recto is an old ruby gz34 thats been in the amp since i bought it.

    not sure what you mean by 30v of envelope

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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    i should mention that the trem circut is disconnected and v1 and the trem tube are pulled which frees up a little current. the recto is an old ruby gz34 thats been in the amp since i bought it.

    not sure what you mean by 30v of envelope
    Envelope is the voltage sag across the rectifier tube under load. A GZ34 should have about 20 volts of envelope (sag) as the tube nears its full output...which it won't in a DR. For you to be able to drop the plate voltage 30 volts with a bias bias adjustment really concerns me.

    One thing to check...does the rectifier tube have 4 pins or 5? Sovtek was, for a short time, rebranding 5Y3's as GZ34's...GZ34's always have 5 pins and 5Y3's always have 4.

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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    sorry, lost this thread.

    its got 5 pins and says made in china

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    Electron Herder glassman's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    sorry, lost this thread.

    its got 5 pins and says made in china
    That's a 5AR4/GZ34 then...Did you replace the power x-former at some point?

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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    nope stock old fender. the output tranny has been replaced but obviously that shouldnt change the power section. i put a pair of jj's in and checked both ends of the bias pot. 423v @ 50ma all the way to 480v at 3ma

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    Electron Herder glassman's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    nope stock old fender. the output tranny has been replaced but obviously that shouldnt change the power section. i put a pair of jj's in and checked both ends of the bias pot. 423v @ 50ma all the way to 480v at 3ma
    That is strange! The potential of 480v on 450v caps is concerning too. Is the power x-former a 125P23B? If it's a 125P33A (export), it could be wired to the 100v primary tap which would give you about 480v at the plates (minus rect envelope). Measure your filament voltage (preferably with the tubes out). If it's over 7 volts, I would suspect a wind (or short) problem in the primary. That would also account for the excessive sag across the bias sweep.

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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    filament is about 6.4v

    ill check the tranny # when i get home

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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    If my memory serves me correctly, 415V is max for those 6l6's.

    Be careful Jeremy
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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    so the codes are M025130 , EA 606-951 , CSA 827 on the power tranny

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    Default Re: tung sol 6v6 in deluxe reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    so the codes are M025130 , EA 606-951 , CSA 827 on the power tranny
    Jeremy,

    That is a Deluxe Reverb transformer, manufactured by Schumacher (606) during the 51st week of 1969 (951); it's from a silverface and would explain the higher voltages. It was designed for a 5U4 rectifier tube which would get your voltages where they should be.

    Edit: the "M" in the code M025130 is reportedly indicative of a special wind; the correct code for a DR is 025130 which is the same as a 125P23B.
    Last edited by glassman; 08-28-2009 at 10:21 AM. Reason: more info

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