Anyone ever get "bridge sag" on a Gibson bridge?

[Young Angus]

Just wondering if "bridge sag" was common in Gibson bridges and if it's just one of those things you come to expect after a few years of having the guitar?

Is it a serious kind of thing or is it the kind of thing that's usually so minute that you wouldn't even notice?

[aleclee]

Got a newsletter from StewMac last year about a guitar whose bridge had sagged to the point where the action couldn't really be set up because it was too low on the middle strings.

[J Moose]

I think what your referring to is a collapsed bridge... and yeah, they happen. All too common actually. If there's enough of a collapse you'll get all sorts of weird buzzes & rattles... and it'll eventually hamper the playability since the bridge now has an inverse radius compared to the fretboard.

My main LP is on the second loose-o-matic and that's starting to go too... next time I'm gonna buck up and go with a Tone Pros setup which, so far... that assembly on my ESP has been rock solid and I abuse that plank.

[beandip]

I've dealt with it quite a bit, and didn't know it was a common problem until I saw it in Dan Erlewine's book "Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great". I'm thinking that it's just one of those things that give out at a certain time, as it seemed to be happening right at the same time period (2005 onward).

It's a rather simple fix, and makes the guitar play so much better.

[J Moose]

If theres a fix, what is it?

I thought the "fix" was putting a whole new bridge on... unless you bend it back into place. Seriously... I have a handful of tune-o's that are bent junk metal.

[Young Angus]

Surely a new bridge can't cost too much...compared to the overall price of a Gibson.

[jmh151]

back in 1996 my guitar tech told me the bridge on my 1986 Les Paul Custom was sagging- I doubted it was possible, but it happens.

Callaham just game out with an all steel bridge that I'm looking into which is sag proof- though I'm attracted to the Gotoh Tone Pro bridges as well.

[beandip]

It's a matter of bending it back into shape after removing the saddles. The top of the bridge is flat while the saddles are radiused. In order to put it back into shape one must slowly bend the bridge slightly past the point of flat so that when unclamped it will return true.

Another way that folks were doing this was knocking down the outside saddles so that the middle saddles were once again the highest and raising the bridge to compensate, but I find that to be a f*cked up shortcut much like the shaving down of a bridge in order to put off a neck reset for a few years.

[beandip]

Keep in mind, that the gauge and break angle of the strings over the saddle has a lot to do with how quickly the bridge will buckle and fold.

[jeremy]

with the heavy strings i like i deal with it too often. never tried to bend the bridge. good tip dip

[crusty philtrum]

I've encountered it, it's not something i'd ever thought about until i finally discovered it as the cause of some set-up problems. Of course, after the first time, it's something to check anytime your working with a TOM bridge. Because of metal fatigue, i'd simply rather replace the bridge, and by the sounds of it, the new Callaham unit is probably the way to go on a guitar that's a keeper.

[DonP]

I bought a used 1996 LP in 2002 and took it to Dan. The bridge was collapsed in 6 years. He replaced it with Tone Pro's stuff. He also radiused the saddles to match the 9.5" neck (QC, Gibson?) and rounded the saddles smooth - no sharp edges.

Size of the strings and how low the tailpiece is compared to the bridge (break angle) impacts the collapse just as beandip said.

[Rich_S]

Raising the tailpiece or top-wrapping is the way to prevent (or at least delay) the dreaded collapse of the TOM.

[jeremy]

i like to have as much down angle over the bridge as i can and have the tail piece down to the body. not good for the bridge

[Pontiac Jack]

I found this to be a fairly common problem particullarly on early - mid 80's Gibsons ( I suppose it was one of many problems they had around that period. Lack of tone was another... ).
I thought they would have cured it by now.
I also found it more common on gold hardware for some reason.

Cheers,PJ

[J Moose]

It's a matter of bending it back into shape after removing the saddles. The top of the bridge is flat while the saddles are radiused. In order to put it back into shape one must slowly bend the bridge slightly past the point of flat so that when unclamped it will return true.

Thanks Einstein...

heh heh heh

What I meant was, what's the best method to actually bend the bridge back?

I've tried that before with little to no success. Clamping the bridge to a block of maple and working at it with C-clamps I never saw one move much, if at all...

FWIW - My main LP is top-wrapped with .11-52 and it doesn't seem to matter... I've killed 'em on other Gibsons too & chucked at least a half-dozen bridges over the years.

If you beat on the guitar like I do & rest your hand on the bridge it'll eventually cave. Except for that Tone-Pros on the ESP... that things been rock solid so far!

[Diocletian]

Keep in mind, that the gauge and break angle of the strings over the saddle has a lot to do with how quickly the bridge will buckle and fold.

Yep, Erlewine's book helped me out with this too. It was on my Epiphone Black Beauty, so I just got a new bridge and now keep the break angle at a much better position.

[beandip]

Remove all the saddles
Clean the bridge to a decent clean
lay bridge over something about 1"x1" (WxH) that's relatively strong but non marring (I use steel square tube with leather)
Using two C clamps, slowly clamp the bridge to true flat.
Let it sit there for several days.
Slowly (1/4 turn every 5 minutes or so) push the bridge slightly past true
Make sure to look at the bridge carefully when doing this, you might snap it in two
leave for several days, don't touch it. Don't think about touching it. Don't sing about touching it. Don't sing about thinking about touching it. DON'T TOUCH IT.

After 2-3 days, it should have it's "memory" returned and all is well in the world.

That, or just buy a Tone Pros. Unless we're talking vintage stuff here, in which case it's best to use original.

[J Moose]

Kool beans. I'll give that a shot at some point and see if I can't manage to salvage a bridge.

So several days? Let it sit for a week or better? That's the trick eh?

None of my stuff is vintage... the main LP is an '02.

Thanks!

[Wattage]

The Tone Pros bridge will go over time too I would imagine.

If it does the LP gets the Rolls Royce treatment and I'll splurge for a Callaham.

Guitar Parts Depot just had the Tone Pros on sale for $30 so it paid to try it.

fwiw I have collapsed the Nashville bridge on every LP I have had.

edit ***I have collapsed ABR's as well****I also have have had good success with the Gotoh bridge on my ESP, sort of an industrial strength Nashville