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Thread: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

  1. #21
    Tone Member Tom Huff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalSix View Post
    x2 --- I fell in love with one of those at my local store, and played it every week during college.

    I still dream about it, for tight, full, aggressive tone. Perfection!
    Well it is still for sale as of now. Nudge nudge.

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    Mojo's Minions Gamera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankyBoy View Post
    Wow guys thanks a lot! wasn't execpting that much interesting responses. You guys understood what I need. I'm looking right now at the demos and reviews of the amps you told me about. I gotta say the distortion of the Genz Benz El Diablo blew me away at the instant I heard it...
    Out of curiosity, where did you hear it?

    I own one and it does indeed do what you're looking for. The cleans are clean but very thick and warm. The clean channel is even called "warm." The dirt is pretty varied and does anything from a classic crunch to full out metal. It's a loud amp, even in the 30W setting. Maybe more for bedroom jamming even if nobody's home on the whole block. Great for jamming with a noisy drummer though.

    I've personally had my best luck with a tube screamer in front of it and using either the warm clean or classic gain settings. This method seems to allow my guitar tone to come through better as the distorted channel has a habit of making any guitar sound like a Genz Benz El Diablo. The amp leans a little toward the thick and heavy side on all of its available tones. Even cranking the treble on my guitar and the treble settings on the amp can sometimes result in fat, thick tones.

  3. #23
    ozzynotwood
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal


  4. #24
    Ultimate Tone Member FrankyBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt View Post
    i've got a Vox Valvetronix XL 212 50 watt. it sounds pretty mean.

    personally though... I say a krankenstein jr. 20 watt would be a good start.

    although for an attack attack sound, I think it'd be best to find something with more of a mesa sound... so a dual caliber or a 50 caliber combo would be your best bet.

    but take that with a grain of salt as I find Attack Attack!'s tone to be quite mediocre(undefined and dark). and i'm not really a fan of their music.

    whatever you do, remember to play in the crabcore position, it helps with the tone.
    HA HA HA HA!

    For those who don't know... Attack Attack! is known for crabcore...

    Last edited by FrankyBoy; 02-03-2010 at 03:23 PM.
    Frank
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt View Post
    Whatever you do, remember to play in the crabcore position, it helps with the tone.

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    Ultimate Tone Member FrankyBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamera View Post
    Out of curiosity, where did you hear it?

    I heard the demos from the Genz-Benz website.
    http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=video_eldmetal

    I hear the thick tone you guys were talking about, makes me think of Killswitch Engage's tone.
    Frank
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt View Post
    Whatever you do, remember to play in the crabcore position, it helps with the tone.

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    Our Neighbor Totoro FuseG4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankyBoy View Post
    I heard the demos from the Genz-Benz website.
    http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=video_eldmetal

    I hear the thick tone you guys were talking about, makes me think of Killswitch Engage's tone.
    this vid has more my kind of tone
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    Mojo's Minions crguti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Attack Attack!
    Last edited by crguti; 02-04-2010 at 02:00 AM.

  8. #28
    Mojo's Minions everdrone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    your gonna have to sacrifice in one direction or the other. rock or metal. cause if you get a razor sharp attack amp for extreme metal, its not gonna sound like a rock amp. and vice versa. just the fundamentals.

    just sayin'
    My solo downtuned HEAVY rock project https://soundcloud.com/earthalliance

    Guitarist and Bassist in North Austin, Texas

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    Our Neighbor Totoro FuseG4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    ^ another example of the "get two amps or a really clean one and a GOOD pedal" scenario. This only applies to people on budgets. Better amps can be more versatile. Anways...

    Everyone who plays sufficiently different types of music (country and hard rock, classic rock and modern metal, for instance) needs a base-line amp that does what they do most often. The country guy can get a clean amp and either get a good OD pedal or a good dirty amp for everything else. I have a great mild-dirt amp and if I want metal I'm gonna get a second dirtier amp or, kill two birds and get a really good clean amp and a really good pedal.

    You could light some dudes up with the right guitar, a fender hot rod and a metal zone. And that's skimping on the pedal.

    Natural amp distortion kicks ass but if you cant find an amp that does mild and heavy to your liking, you're not screwed. Just shoot for the lower gain and use a pedal or buy a metal amp and a middle-of-the road type.
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    Mojo's Minions Petrovsk Mizinski's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by DankStar View Post
    doesn't joey use PODs for attack attack? I don't know their sound from atom, but from posts over at the sneap forum, I thought that's what he used a lot for bands he records (and for a reason unbeknownst to me, is also a source of controversy over there).
    Joey has never used real amps on any of his productions.
    POD XT and POD Farm only to date.
    He gets easily some of the best POD tones in existence

  11. #31
    Mojo's Minions Petrovsk Mizinski's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Any looking at what the OP wants, a lot of it seems to just contradict itself.

    You want high gain, tight tones, but you're not willing to get at least an 100 watt amp?
    You're not going to nail KSE tones with anything less than 100 watts, KSE tone comes from having amps with tons of headroom.

    You want tube dynamics, but you want to play a fair bit in your bedroom?

    Honestly, sell the Metalzone, keep the Cube for your bedroom because unless you buy a SUPER low wattage amp you're not going to get the proper tube feel in the bedroom (although AFAIK the ENGL Powerball is one of the few tube amps that genuinely sounds good at bedroom levels, but you can't afford that anyway).
    And a super low wattage amp doesn't do modern metal anyway, so that's out of the equation.

    Save up for a 5150 head and cab combination.
    It will do EXACTLY what you want at jamming levels (with a drummer type jamming levels). End of Heartache uses 2 tracks of 5150 for the rhythm guitar FWIW.

    If not, find a decent amp modeling solution that will do higher volume stuff than your Cube.

  12. #32
    Our Neighbor Totoro FuseG4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrovsk Mizinski View Post
    .

    You want tube dynamics, but you want to play a fair bit in your bedroom?
    Tube dynamics is NOT only about full on power tube saturation.

    Almost any decent tube amp can under 40W can hit the type of touch-sensitive edge-of-breakup dynamics tube lovers enjoy, without getting you kicked out of your house. The kind where you get just a hint of grit when you hit it hard... this is a magic spot for pedals because it'll add to the distortion pedal's dirt with it's own warmth and grit when you play harder. That's also the point where you can back off the guitar's volume and clean it up pretty well, even through many dirt pedals.

    some solid state amps can kinda pull that off but generally they suck at it!

    I don't really care what volume he's playing at, you don't have to crank a tube amp to get everything out of it. Some of the best stuff is up there but it's not everything.
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    Mojo's Minions Petrovsk Mizinski's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by FuseG4 View Post
    Tube dynamics is NOT only about full on power tube saturation.

    Almost any decent tube amp can under 40W can hit the type of touch-sensitive edge-of-breakup dynamics tube lovers enjoy, without getting you kicked out of your house. The kind where you get just a hint of grit when you hit it hard... this is a magic spot for pedals because it'll add to the distortion pedal's dirt with it's own warmth and grit when you play harder. That's also the point where you can back off the guitar's volume and clean it up pretty well, even through many dirt pedals.

    some solid state amps can kinda pull that off but generally they suck at it!

    I don't really care what volume he's playing at, you don't have to crank a tube amp to get everything out of it. Some of the best stuff is up there but it's not everything.
    Yes but he wants to play KSE and Attack Attack. Not wanting
    "grit when you hit it hard".
    He wants balls out gain and presumably, a very clean clean that doesn't break up.

    A low wattage amp does not have the necessary head room to cover those styles of playing.
    There is reason why modern metal bands and metal producers/engineers almost always use amps with at least 100 watts, because anything less will typically not feel and sound good for the style.

    And the whole point of modern high gain tube amps is they don't need to be turned up to 10 anyway.
    They actually sound like crap on full master volume.
    Again, it comes back to the headroom thing, and 40 watts wont cut it

  14. #34
    Ultimate Tone Member FrankyBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrovsk Mizinski View Post
    He wants balls out gain and presumably, a very clean clean that doesn't break up.
    In facts, I am looking for a little bit of break-up. I'm looking for the tube feel, cause when I play the roland, the clean never breaks-up (volume of the amp doesn't affect anything) and I don't quite like this.

    P.S. I don't like the metalzone. Sounds thin, trebly, the only setting I like is with an "overdrive" setting, so I'm not even using it that much.
    Frank
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt View Post
    Whatever you do, remember to play in the crabcore position, it helps with the tone.

  15. #35
    Our Neighbor Totoro FuseG4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    have you ever played a marshall haze? the 40 W combo, not the head.

    It's a decent classic rock amp, and not a good metal amp on it's own, as the gain channel is too loose in the lows. But a good pedal in front of it will give you some good gain and tighten things up. The el34s tubes naturally put out enough power to make whatever you put in front of it sound huge. From there, you may want to think about the guitar. Maybe a 25" scale with an a8 humbucker. If you can't get some kind of decent metal tone from that I'd be surprised.

    That amp gets slammed on for not sounding like marshalls from days of yore but if you approach it unbiased it does have tone to offer.
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    John Mayer's Mankini ImmortalSix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankyBoy View Post
    HA HA HA HA!

    For those who don't know... Attack Attack! is known for crabcore...




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    Our Neighbor Totoro FuseG4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    ^ yeah I had to look those guys up when i saw that, so that I could see that in context.

    I uh... won't be looking up any more of their stuff now.
    ----
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    John Mayer's Mankini ImmortalSix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Embarrassingly enough, I own the album that that music video (and the resultant hilarious gif) are from.

    I was making stir fry one night, and a song came up on Pandora that went from crunk to metal to girlpants to techno, and I flipped 'em a ten-spot and bought the album just because I thought they deserved a pat on the back for either seamlessly integrating 4 disparate musical styles, or alternately (and much more likely), shamelessly gimmicking their way into the limelight.

    Anyhow, yep - I have that CD. Sitting in my truck console next to Bill Frisell, John Mayer, Works Progress Administration, and Tommy Emmanuel.

    Seems almost sacrilegous.

    P.S. I just remembered I even wrote it up on TLA. Read that for a laugh.

  19. #39
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Lake Placid Blues's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankyBoy View Post
    In facts, I am looking for a little bit of break-up. I'm looking for the tube feel, cause when I play the roland, the clean never breaks-up (volume of the amp doesn't affect anything) and I don't quite like this.

    P.S. I don't like the metalzone. Sounds thin, trebly, the only setting I like is with an "overdrive" setting, so I'm not even using it that much.
    A used 50watt JCM800 with 6550's is what you really want but don't know it yet. Save up. Perhaps install a FX loop. These amps respond well to the right pedals and good pre-amps for more gain, and they got the beef and the tube tone. Keep the Cube too, their great for what their for.

    The JCM-800 4010 is the 1x12 combo version of the 2204 head. The 4104 is the 2x12 version. But you may want a closed back cab for the stuff your into. A head and a closed back cab with the speaker(s) best suited for it and your misic styles may meet you needs better.

  20. #40
    Mojo's Minions Gamera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

    Quote Originally Posted by everdrone View Post
    your gonna have to sacrifice in one direction or the other. rock or metal. cause if you get a razor sharp attack amp for extreme metal, its not gonna sound like a rock amp. and vice versa. just the fundamentals.

    just sayin'
    Yes and no. The Genz Benz actually can do this fairly well thanks to the tube contour knob (I think that's what it's called, I'm not in front of it now.) Unfortunately there are no demos on their site to showcase the classic gain side of the El Diablo which is quite nice and a little similar to the Black Pearl demo linked above.

    The El Diablo does have a lot of nice features and is very versatile. If you have a chance to play one, make sure you do so. It may not be for everyone, especially if you have a preconceived tone in your head before buying. I've owned one for a couple years and there are days I love it and days I hate it. It has a big, fat, thick, warm base tone. And thanks to the controls you can tweak that tone in a number of different ways for different applications. Make sure you like that base tone though as you'll never be able to escape it.

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