'59n vs PGn - Compare and Contrast

[Kam]

If you please, good sirs.

If anyone has any experience with these two neck pickups I'll really appreciate your opinions on the similarities and differences between them.

I'm thinking of replacing the '59n in my SG and I'm really curious about the Pearly Gates. I'm particularly interested in your views on the clean tones and how they compare.

Cheers.

[joebonsai]

I did something very 'strange'
I've put a Pair of Pearly Gates BRIDGE pickups in this guitar
...... sounds great!!!!!!
I've had a 59er and a Antiquity neck in the neck position
The new Variation with the PG sound a bit brighter and has less bass, I love it
due to the fact that are AlNico2 in the PG, I think it's warmer than the 59er

[Kam]

Thanks for posting, dude. From what I've heard (or what I think I might have heard) the PG is kinda bright so using the bridge model in the neck is an interesting choice to combat that.

That's a beautiful guitar too, man. I love your pick holder.

[blueman335]

'59N's have more upper treble, and more bass; and the bass is tight. They're also scooped somewhat. This is mainly due to the A5 magnet. They're great in mahogany, but can be boomy in an LP or 335; if you lower the bass side of the PU a little, you can usually fix that. Clean tones are sharp and clear.

PGN's are bright, but that's due to the low wind, not the magnet (I could say, 'in spite of the magnet'). Not as sharp-sounding as a '59N. They have a bigger, fuller sound, from the A2's mids. They're smoother when clean. A2's give them more feel and dynamics, but also loosen up the bass.

I've been a '59N guy for years (have them in LP, SG, and 335), and only recently got into Duncan's A2 neck PAF's. I got discouraged by Gibson's A2 PAF's, as they're darker and 'mud-out' easy. Duncan's A2 PAF's are brighter (lower winds?) and clearer, more articulate.

If you're taking the '59N out of your SG, I'd definitely recommend a PGN.

[chris_tw21]

I took a set of pearly gates out and drop a set of 59's in.I also went with 50's wiring because of the cable on the 59's and it's better because the 59's have less sizzle.I also like a5 mag's better.The 59's have a better clean and are smoother then the pearly gates.County/jazz = has a better clean.

[Kam]

Excellent and thorough advice as always, Blueman. Much appreciated. Thanks for your help to the other guys too.

Anyone else feel like chiming in and convincing me to go buy a new pup?

[Jeff_H]

Kam,

I always found the 59'(n) to be a bit boomy in the neck for me. It was just never warm enough and the highs always seemed a bit too crisp. I really prefer the cleans of an A2 pickup, especially in the neck. I do like the 59' bridge version in the bridge. I can't seem to find the clip I did with the 59'(n) but if you click on my soundclips in my sig it will take you to soundclick. Then click on list all 18 songs and scroll down a bit. There is a comparison between the PG(n) and the Seth(n).

Done on the same day, in the same guitar (Dean Hardtail) mahogany body, carved maple cap, double cutaway with an ebony board. Same pickup height, strings...everything. Straight into a JCM 800 4212 (2205 2 channel 50 watt 800)...straight into the computer. No effects added at all except a bit of reverb from the amp. I tried to play the same licks as closely as my limited talent allows me. I think it's a pretty fair comparison.

The PG sounds brighter to me, but in a good way. It is also a bit clearer than the Seth...although I prefer the additional warmth of the Seth. At least this way you can hear the PG and get an idea of what it sounds like.

[Aceman]

'59N's have more upper treble, and more bass; and the bass is tight. They're also scooped somewhat. This is mainly due to the A5 magnet. They're great in mahogany, but can be boomy in an LP or 335; if you lower the bass side of the PU a little, you can usually fix that. Clean tones are sharp and clear.

PGN's are bright, but that's due to the low wind, not the magnet (I could say, 'in spite of the magnet'). Not as sharp-sounding as a '59N. They have a bigger, fuller sound, from the A2's mids. They're smoother when clean. A2's give them more feel and dynamics, but also loosen up the bass.

I've been a '59N guy for years (have them in LP, SG, and 335), and only recently got into Duncan's A2 neck PAF's. I got discouraged by Gibson's A2 PAF's, as they're darker and 'mud-out' easy. Duncan's A2 PAF's are brighter (lower winds?) and clearer, more articulate.

If you're taking the '59N out of your SG, I'd definitely recommend a PGN.

Fantastic review. It took years of therapy with a band of a2's around his neck to get him to this point.

I'll add a couple of notes:
The highs on the 59 are what I would describe as sharp. The highs on the PG a sweet on the very top - a little more rounded on the edge, so to speak. Or sweet on top. The upper mid on the PG is kind of like a presence boost on an eq, and that's what (IMO) gives it the ability to curt through the mix, without being harsh.

Slightly more mids than a 59, but I hear them both a slightly scooped. A PG, less so.

I feel/hear the "sizzle" or the slight hair on the fundamental note (even if clean). This is not distortion. It's just a....earthy quality to the note. A PG is like wood with some grain, and a 59 is like a smooth laminated counter top.

IMO, a PG is the pup sound we all think of when we think of a "magic" original 59 PAF.

[blueman335]

I'll add a couple of notes:
The highs on the 59 are what I would describe as sharp. The highs on the PG a sweet on the very top - a little more rounded on the edge, so to speak. Or sweet on top. The upper mid on the PG is kind of like a presence boost on an eq, and that's what (IMO) gives it the ability to curt through the mix, without being harsh.

Slightly more mids than a 59, but I hear them both a slightly scooped. A PG, less so.

I feel/hear the "sizzle" or the slight hair on the fundamental note (even if clean). This is not distortion. It's just a....earthy quality to the note. A PG is like wood with some grain, and a 59 is like a smooth laminated counter top.

IMO, a PG is the pup sound we all think of when we think of a "magic" original 59 PAF.

Likewise, good comments. Actually Aceman was one of the guys that convinced me to finally try a set of PG's. I jumped in with both feet and got an A2P set also, and a Seth neck. I wanted to find out what it was all about. I'm pleased with all of them. Duncan knows how to bring out the best in an A2. There's a quality that A2's have, call it 'earthy' (there's been many descriptions here over the years), that adds to the complexity of the tone. This same quality is in unoriented A5's, but not so much in regular A5's. Coincidently, A2's are also unoriented. I hear PGN's as having a wider, rounder sound with more color, whereas '59N's seem more vertical or like an hourglass, and more uniform in tonality. Both are great PU's. If one isn't quite what you want, the other probably is.

[jbear]

I listened for years to what Scott Henderson and Robben Ford get/got out a pair of 59's, and their tones have gobs of midrange...the really rich stuff. I know there's a lot of other stuff in the signal chain (like a $40K Dumble or a Suhr OD), that convinced me to try them...I stick 'em everywhere now. I love those PUP's. I have two (a semi and a Tele with the 59/PG combo) and I dig that too. If you know your amp and how to use your guitar's tone controls...you can do a lot with most anything. Still...nice to have all of these choices.

[uOpt]

The '59 is scooped with large bass and loud treble. It can be very boomy in the neck of a LP if you play full chords and whatnot. It is great for high-gain leads because the loud highs make the ping-pinch-squeal much easier.

The PG can also be boomy, but it has a push that's not quite in the bass, it's some low-mids above that. It has a sizzle on top that is pronounced highs but entirely different from the '59.

[GuitarDoc]

I agree with Blue and Ace.

I absolutely love my PGn. It's a little rounder/smoother than a '59 but still has great highs. It has more mids (upper mids) and can really cut through. Absolutely fantastic cleans...full bodied, good bass, great mids, excellent highs, smoother top end than a 59. The PG is still a very little bit scooped, but not nearly as much as the 59. Both do cleans very well, but the PG is a more complete and complex tone. It fills in better.

I do a lot of rhythm and lead work on my neck pup, and the PGn is perfect for both...clean or otherwise.

I think you would really love the PGn. I can't think of a better neck pup, but if I were you I'd try replacing the A5 mag in your 59 with an UOA5 mag first. That may just be the ticket. That will tend to soften the highs a bit and fill in a bit of the missing mids and give it a bit more warmth and smoothness. For only $2 and about 10 - 15 minutes, it's certainly a reasonable option to try. If it isn't exactly what you are after, then go ahead with the PG. You really won't have lost anything, but gained some good experience and first-hand knowledge about magnets.

[blueman335]

I think you would really love the PGn. I can't think of a better neck pup.

I can't recall anyone here not liking a PGN. Some guys aren't as thrilled with PGB's, and you see an ocasional used one for sale, but finding a used PGN for sale isn't easy.

[Kam]

I agree with Blue and Ace.

I absolutely love my PGn. It's a little rounder/smoother than a '59 but still has great highs. It has more mids (upper mids) and can really cut through. Absolutely fantastic cleans...full bodied, good bass, great mids, excellent highs, smoother top end than a 59. The PG is still a very little bit scooped, but not nearly as much as the 59. Both do cleans very well, but the PG is a more complete and complex tone. It fills in better.

I do a lot of rhythm and lead work on my neck pup, and the PGn is perfect for both...clean or otherwise.

I think you would really love the PGn. I can't think of a better neck pup, but if I were you I'd try replacing the A5 mag in your 59 with an UOA5 mag first. That may just be the ticket. That will tend to soften the highs a bit and fill in a bit of the missing mids and give it a bit more warmth and smoothness. For only $2 and about 10 - 15 minutes, it's certainly a reasonable option to try. If it isn't exactly what you are after, then go ahead with the PG. You really won't have lost anything, but gained some good experience and first-hand knowledge about magnets.

This is a great post and you describe pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. Cheers for posting.

To be honest, I want to get a Pearly Gates because I can spare the cash at the minute and I'm just really curious about it. The only Duncan neck bucker I've tried is the '59 so I thought it would be time to expand my horizons and it's always been a pickup I've wanted to try out for myself. Once I get my SG back together I'm going to try an A4 in my '59 and if that doesn't work then I'll place the order for the PG.

Although it's looking like I'll need to talk myself out of getting a Phat Cat too. Too many attractive freakin' options.

[GuitarDoc]

What pup do you currently have in that SG? A Phat Cat with A5's or A5/UOA5 is a great bridge pup. Don't talk yourself out of it quite yet.

[Kam]

At the minute I have a Custom 8 in the bridge, which is freakin' awesome. I'm honestly not considering changing that, for the foreseeable future, anyway. The current neck pickup is a '59n, which I like a lot but I get the feeling I'd like a PG a bit more.

Ever since I took my SG apart a week or two ago I've been playing my HSS Pacifica a tonne and I've realised how much I really like the sound of a single coil in the neck, so I was really tempted to throw a Phat Cat in the neck slot of my SG. I'm talking myself out of it, though. If I do it then I won't have a (decent) neck humbucker in my arsenal and as soon as I have enough money I'm gonna invest in an SG-esque guitar with two P90s so that covers that base.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

[GuitarDoc]

Yeh, the C8 is a great bridge pup for an SG. C8b/PGn = great combination. A good one to stick with.

Agree, save the Phat Cat for another project and keep the SG as is.

[Dr.K]

I've got a question. I've got a 59n that has a 7.59k ohm reading. If I just swap mags wouldn't it be the same as having a PGn?

[Despair]

No, there's more to a pickup than just the resistance reading and magnet.

[Dr.K]

No, there's more to a pickup than just the resistance reading and magnet.

I know. But, aren't the 59 and PG wound with the same wire also?