Magnets/Resistance/Wire

[polifemo]

Waiting for some magnets to arrive (new to magnet swapping) and while doing so I´ll ask some questions.

Are there some "rules" regarding which type of magnet that will suit a certain DC reading?

Will for example a PU that reads 14,5k work equally well with a A2 as with a A8?

I´ve understood the "EQ" and output of the different magnet types, I just want to get hang of how all this relates to the pickups resistance.

Speaking of "EQ-curves" how does the choice of wire and wire patterns affects the EQ of a pickup?

[cakire82]

Waiting for some magnets to arrive (new to magnet swapping) and while doing so I´ll ask some questions.

Are there some "rules" regarding which type of magnet that will suit a certain DC reading?

Will for example a PU that reads 14,5k work equally well with a A2 as with a A8?

I´ve understood the "EQ" and output of the different magnet types, I just want to get hang of how all this relates to the pickups resistance.

Speaking of "EQ-curves" how does the choice of wire and wire patterns affects the EQ of a pickup?

1) not that I know of (maybe I don't know)

2) Yes, Custom and JB are good examples for this scenario but it will significantly depend on the guitar also

3) DC resistance of a pickup does not change with the magnet. It depends on the temperature, wire, winding.. etc

4) I don't know

[copperheadroads]

the higher the dc resistance the more muddy a pickup can , is a rule of thumb but it can be countered somewhat with magnet change so if you have a jb as an example & you want to brighten it up a bit you might try a A8 or a ceramic 8 maybe even a unoriented 5 -(i have not played with them yet) . if you want to try smooth out some of the shrill highs consider trying A2 or a A4 .try them & see what you like

[blueman335]

I've swapped many magnets and all I do is listen carefully to the magent currently in the PU, and decide what I want more of, and less of. Then select a magent that will move me in that direction.

For example, a boomy neck PU with a stock A5; I'd consider an A3 to keep treble while reducing low end and output, or an A4 that would add some mids and take off a little treble. In an A2 neck PU, if it's too dark, I'd try an A4, A3. or A5 (in order of brightness).

For a bright/thin/scooped A5 bridge PU, I've used:
-Roughcast A5 (for a smoother, less harsh high-end)
-A4 for moderate warmth
-Roughcast A4 for a smoother high-end
-A8 for mids and high output, an 'alnico meets ceramic' sound
-UOA5 for A2-type dynamics but with a tighter low-end, and a bit more treble and output
-A2 for dynamics and a rounded high-end
-Roughcast A2 for an smoother, fuller high-end

A low output magnet like an A2, in an overwound PU like a JB or Custom, will still make for a hot PU. What changes is the warmth and organic feel the A2 brings to the party. A2's are very good in JB's. I also really like UOA5's in Customs. Everything just seems to come together. You get the best qualities of PU and magnet.

I usually use A8's in hotter bridge PU's, never in the neck, although a few guys do. Some guys use A8's in bridge PAF's too, like PGB's. In (low output) PAF's I like to keep that vintage feel and use polished A2, A3, A4 and A5 in the necks, and in the bridges use roughcast A2, RC A3, RC A4, RC A5, and UOA5. But that's just me. Some guys like roughcast magnets in the neck slot. There's no rules on what PU's, magnets, and ohms match up; it's all a matter of taste. What magent will it take to get your EQ where you want it? Everything's on the table for consideration.

[lowenzz]

I really wish that pickup manufacturers would list wire diameter and number of turns. For example a 12K pickup with 42gauge vs 43 gauge are going to have different results sonically. Or another way to look at it is that say 10,000 wraps of 42 is going to have less resistance than say an equal amount of wraps of 43.

Magnets have no affect on resistance of the wind. The magnet is a needed ingredient to make the pickups work. The magnet is also a preset eq of sorts that can be changed. This along with the strength of the magnet affects the output of the pickup greatly.

[polifemo]

I've swapped many magnets and all I do is listen carefully to the magent currently in the PU, and decide what I want more of, and less of. Then select a magent that will move me in that direction.

For example, a boomy neck PU with a stock A5; I'd consider an A3 to keep treble while reducing low end and output, or an A4 that would add some mids and take off a little treble. In an A2 neck PU, if it's too dark, I'd try an A4, A3. or A5 (in order of brightness).

For a bright/thin/scooped A5 bridge PU, I've used:
-Roughcast A5 (for a smoother, less harsh high-end)
-A4 for moderate warmth
-Roughcast A4 for a smoother high-end
-A8 for mids and high output, an 'alnico meets ceramic' sound
-UOA5 for A2-type dynamics but with a tighter low-end, and a bit more treble and output
-A2 for dynamics and a rounded high-end
-Roughcast A2 for an smoother, fuller high-end

A low output magnet like an A2, in an overwound PU like a JB or Custom, will still make for a hot PU. What changes is the warmth and organic feel the A2 brings to the party. A2's are very good in JB's. I also really like UOA5's in Customs. Everything just seems to come together. You get the best qualities of PU and magnet.

I usually use A8's in hotter bridge PU's, never in the neck, although a few guys do. Some guys use A8's in bridge PAF's too, like PGB's. In (low output) PAF's I like to keep that vintage feel and use polished A2, A3, A4 and A5 in the necks, and in the bridges use roughcast A2, RC A3, RC A4, RC A5, and UOA5. But that's just me. Some guys like roughcast magnets in the neck slot. There's no rules on what PU's, magnets, and ohms match up; it's all a matter of taste. What magent will it take to get your EQ where you want it? Everything's on the table for consideration.

Once again an informative reply. Thanks a lot!

[polifemo]

For example a 12K pickup with 42gauge vs 43 gauge are going to have different results sonically. Or another way to look at it is that say 10,000 wraps of 42 is going to have less resistance than say an equal amount of wraps of 43.

Thanks.

What would the difference in tone be?

[King IzzO)))]

A 12K 42ga will probably be big on the midrange and dark/muddy-ish, probably semi-blurry response. I think you would want to use an A5 in a pickup like that to counter the heavy midrange and blurriness inherent in the big coils. This would be an like an overwound Brobucker, I think.

A 12K 43ga would be fairly bright-ish (this would fall right between a Screamin' Demon and a Custom), and would probably be real articulate. I personally would hate an A5 in a pickup like that because the mids would be real shallow, but some people really like that. I would use an A2, UOA5 or even an A8 in something like that to give the mids some punch and relieve some of the inherent brightness.

There's no rules, but there is some science going on here.

Anyone know what gauge the 21+ winds are using (El Diablo, PATB-2, Super3, BK Warpig, WCR Ironman)? Because they seem to function counter to conventional wisdom, I think there might be some unexplored territory there.

[polifemo]

Thanks.
Slowly learning.

[lowenzz]

A 12K 42ga will probably be big on the midrange and dark/muddy-ish, probably semi-blurry response. I think you would want to use an A5 in a pickup like that to counter the heavy midrange and blurriness inherent in the big coils. This would be an like an overwound Brobucker, I think.

A 12K 43ga would be fairly bright-ish (this would fall right between a Screamin' Demon and a Custom), and would probably be real articulate. I personally would hate an A5 in a pickup like that because the mids would be real shallow, but some people really like that. I would use an A2, UOA5 or even an A8 in something like that to give the mids some punch and relieve some of the inherent brightness.

There's no rules, but there is some science going on here.

Anyone know what gauge the 21+ winds are using (El Diablo, PATB-2, Super3, BK Warpig, WCR Ironman)? Because they seem to function counter to conventional wisdom, I think there might be some unexplored territory there.

My relatively small amount of experiance would agree with what you stated. I wonder on the big resistance/small gauge winds myself.

I also am curious on how the balanced (equal coil winds) and unbalanced tone is effected. I wonder how the wind itself (tension of the wind) affects things also.

These things keep me up at night, I am hopeless.

[Zhangliqun]

I really wish that pickup manufacturers would list wire diameter and number of turns.

You can wish all you want, but no way in hell will do they EVER do it. It's part of the secret recipe. The turn counters were covered when I went to the first User Group Day back in '05.

The consolation prize is they give you DCR, which gives you some idea how much wire is in there but not close enough to nail the number of turns. DCR does vary some with temperature. Plus not every spool of 42 is EXACTLY the same diameter, there is a tolerance range. So one spool maybe more narrow than the next and read slightly higher at the same number of turns.

So for these and other reasons, DCR is just blurry enough to avoid giving up any secrets, but accurate enough to give you ballpark.