A fresh look at choosing string gauges: real and perceived tension [LONG THREAD]

[Chad]

Nearly every guitar forum has topics on string tension from time to time. Anytime this topic comes up, the primary focus always seems to be on calculating tension based on scale length, string gauge, and tuning. While those things are very important in determining how strings feel, PERCEIVED string tension is also extremely important...and often completely overlooked. In this thread, the focus will be on BOTH measurable and perceived tensions and how they relate to string feel.

Before diving in, I want to say that I am not anybody special. Just an average Joe guitar player who is very interested in this topic and has studied it for over 10 years.


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PLEASE NOTE: whenever an example is given, it is given with the qualifier that ALL ELSE IS CONSTANT.

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On to the discussion...

First of all, we'll look at measurable string tension. This will be a quick review because this information has been rehashed over and over in multiple threads on multiple forums.

Three (and only three) things affect measurable string tension:

1. String mass: Notice I didn't say string gauge. While gauge is a factor, what matters is the unit mass of a string because unit mass can vary greatly between different brands/models of strings of the same gauge. The higher the mass, the higher the tension. The lower the mass, the lower the tension. For example, flatwound strings will generally have higher tension than roundwound strings because the flatwound strings have higher unit mass. To further clarify, a .050" flatwound string will have more measurable tension than a .050" roundwound string.

2. Pitch: This is simple: the higher the pitch, the higher the measurable string tension. The lower the pitch, the lower the measurable string tension.

3. Vibrating length (scale length): The longer the vibrating length, the higher the measurable string tension for a given pitch. The shorter the vibrating length, the lower the measurable string tension for the given pitch.

Before moving on, I want to reiterate that NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING aside from those three things affect measurable string tension.

[Chad]

Now, with measurable tension out of the way, we'll get into the other extremely important and often overlooked factors in string feel: PERCEIVED tension.

Before we dive in, I want to mention that all of these things can greatly affect string feel, but they DO NOT affect measurable tension.

Also, please note that some of these factors interweave with each other.

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• String length outside of the scale length: The longer the string length outside of the scale length, the looser the strings will feel. The shorter the string length outside of the scale length, the tighter the strings will feel.
  
  One of the best examples I can give where this becomes a major factor is the traditional tremolo setup on a Fender Jazzmaster or Jaguar. It is designed such that there is a lot of string length between the bridge and the tremolo. This extra string length creates a looser feel that is significantly noticeable. To compensate for this looser feel, many Jazzmaster/Jaguar players run heavier string gauges. They also often add a shim to the body end of the neck pocket and/or use a "buzz stop" to change the break angle of the strings. That leads us into the next factor.
  
  
  
• Break angles: The more break angle a string has, the tighter it will feel. The less break angle, the looser it will feel.
  
  An example of this would be to look at the adjustable tailpiece on a guitar with a tune-o-matic bridge. The higher the tailpiece is set, the lesser the break angle and looser the strings will feel. The lower the tailpiece is set, the higher the break angle and the tighter the strings will feel. Many famous players take it a step further and run the strings over the top of the tailpiece rather than through it. Zakk Wylde is one player who comes to mind. When the strings are wrapped over the tailpiece, the break angle can almost be completely eliminated. This results in a much looser feel.
  
  Another break angle factor is neck angle. The primary function of neck angle is to affect and allow proper range of adjustment height of the bridge. But there is also a secondary factor that takes place with neck angle.
  
  Please note: Neck angle can easily be adjusted on bolt neck guitars, but with set-neck, neck-thru, etc. designs, there isn't a simple method of adjusting this. Considering neck angle can be adjusted on some guitars, it is really a matter of guitar setup and could have been included in the next section, but I felt the matter was better discussed in this section.
  
  Anyway, when a shim is placed at the body end of the neck pocket, the neck angle is changed and the secondary factor that takes place is the neck is tilted back in relation to the bridge, so the break angle of the entire neck in relation to the bridge is steepened. This has the effect of making the strings have a tighter feel. Back to Jazzmaster/Jaguars: when players put a shim in the body end of the neck pocket there is a twofold occurence: 1) they are tightening the break angle of the neck to the bridge AND 2) forcing the bridge height to be adjusted higher, which causes the break angle between the bridge and tremolo to increase.
  
  
  
• Guitar setup: As far as guitar setup, there are many factors that come into play, but we'll focus on two: string height and neck relief. Basically, at any position on the neck, the larger the distance between the bottom of a string and the top of a fret (i.e the higher the action), the tighter the feel. There is a tighter feel with higher action not only because it requires more energy to push a string down further, but also because pushing down a string causes the break angle between the nut and the top of the bridge to increase, so there will be a tighter feel when bending or otherwise manipulating a string.
  
  As far as relief, the more relief there is, the higher the action is at the middle of the fretboard, so all mentioned in the previous paragraph applies.
  
  
  
• Tremolo "give": A guitar with a tremolo will have a looser feel than a guitar with a fixed bridge. This is because whenever you move a string, the tremolo will rise and give way to the string, which results in a looser feel. The number and stiffness of tremolo springs will be a factor in how much this affects feel. A fixed bridge won't give way, so strings will have a tighter feel.

That is most likely not all inclusive of the factors that can affect perceived string tension, but I'll add more info if needed as the thread progresses.

[Chad]

Q&A:

Question 1: How do you go about choosing strings for a given guitar?

Answer: All of this discussion provides guidelines and understanding of the factors at play, but it is largely academic. I have arrived at my string gauges through trial and error. Every guitar is different, so what works on one guitar may not on another. I try to find what gauges I like for the most part with a given tuning, then I use that as baseline starting point with a similar guitar. There is one area that I find the Tension Calculator extremely helpful: when changing tunings on a guitar. For example, if I know that I like "X" gauge strings on a guitar with standard tuning and I want to switch to a different tuning, then I play around with the calculator and try to find gauges for the new tuning that replicate the measured tension with standard tuning. But even then it comes down to trial and error along with personal preference.


Question 2: What brand strings do you use?

Answer: I have tried tons of brands and models of strings over the years and for 90% of my guitars, I gravitate to boring ole' D'Addario EXL strings. I just like their overall tone, feel, etc. better than other strings. I also like how D'Addario is very open about the construction and specs of their strings, which makes the calculation side of things easier.


Question 3: What's all this talk about "feel" and strings feeling "looser" and "tighter"? Is there a way that can be measured?

Answer: As far as feel, I will provide a very simple test that you can perform to actually see with your eyes how change in feel is affected. First of all, grab a guitar that has a traditional nut. Or if you have a guitar with a locking nut, remove the nut pads. Now, go to any fret on the fretboard (middle of the scale length or around the 12th fret is generally the best place to do this because the effect is most noticeable there) and bend a note up one full step and make a visual note of how far you had to travel vertically on the fretboard to reach that pitch. Next place a capo at the first fret (or lock the nut down). Now perform the exact same test. What you will find is that without the capo in place, you have to cover more vertical distance to achieve the same pitch, but the string has a looser feel. The opposite holds true when a capo is in place. When you bend the note, you won't have to travel as far to reach the pitch, but it will require more pressure and the string will have a tighter feel. Why did this happen? Because placing a capo (or locking the nut) essentially changes the string length outside of the scale length. In other words it effectively "cut off" the string length behind the capo. Without the capo in place the full length of string between the nut and the tuning machine becomes a factor. This same phenomenon happens when you increase the break angle and so forth.

As far as whether it can be measured, perceived string tension is a matter of "compliance". That is to say that the more compliant a string is, the looser it feels. From what I have read, I don't think this can be measured in the sense of standard measurable tension, but I am eager to hear further discussion in this area.


Question 4: A longer scale length has a longer string length INSIDE the scale length, which makes the strings more compliant to movement. That is to say since the string is longer, shouldn't it have a looser feel?

Answer: Yes, the string is more compliant, but don't forget that in terms of measurable tension a longer string inside the scale length has to be drawn tighter to reach a given pitch. Effectively, two factors are at play: tension and compliance (a fancy way of saying perceived tension), and when talking about scale length the vibrating length factor overrides the compliance factor. I.e. the string has more tension than compliance.


Continued...

[Chad]

Question 5: What about reverse headstocks compared to normal headstocks?

Answer: Reverse headstocks aren't just about looks! With a normal headstock, the string length between nut and tuning machine on the low E string is shorter. On the high E string, the distance between the nut and the tuner is longer. As we learned earlier, a longer string length outside the scale length contributes to a looser feel. Therefore the low E string on a reverse headstock will have a looser feel than the low E on a standard headstock. The difference in feel can be drastic enough that you might want to consider going with a higher mass string on the low E of a reverse headstock guitar. The G & D strings will be quite similar on both headstock styles because the string length doesn't vary by much.

As a side note, I DO NOT like reverse headstocks for the reasons stated. I generally prefer a heavier string feel on the lower strings and a looser string feel on the high strings. A normal 6 inline headstock provides this simply as a byproduct of string length outside the scale length. Also, I generally prefer the tone of smaller strings. Heavy gauge strings can get "woofy" sounding in my opinion. So I'd rather use a lighter gauge string and let the short nut-to-tuner distance add in some extra perceived tension. Also, I don't like the looks of reverse headstocks as well as standard headstocks.


Question 6: What about 6 inline headstocks vs. 3+3 headstocks? Or other headstock configurations?

Answer: See question 5. The same string length outside of the scale length principle applies.


Question 7: What about locking nuts?

Answer: Locking nuts are interesting because, as mentioned earlier, they essentially "cut off" the string length behind the nut. It could be argued that a double locking setup provides the most balanced string-to-string perceived tension because break angles and string length outside of the vibrating length don't come into play. For this reason, the commonly discussed "even tensioned" string set makes the most sense with a double locking setup. But don't forget the factor of tremolo "give" that was discussed earlier.

I should note that a double locking fixed bridge would be the ultimate test bed for "even tension" strings, however, I've never owned such a guitar. And I don't care for even tensioned strings, so it wouldn't matter anyway.


Question 8: So are you saying that "even tensioned", "progressive tension", etc. string set ideologies are flawed?

Answer: Absolutely. That is really a big point of creating this whole thread. You can calculate measured tension until your heart is content and arrive at what is seemingly the perfect set, but when you actually put the strings on a guitar and all of the perceived tension factors come into play, it can negate the measurable tension.


Question 9: What about angled headstocks (Gibson style) vs straight headstocks (Fender style)?

Answer: The factor involved is break angles. A guitar with an angled headstock will have a tighter feel than a guitar with a straight headstock. Again, a locking nut would negate this change in feel once the nut is locked down.

I should note that in a couple recent issues of Guitar World, Erik Kirkland mentioned in some guitar reviews that tested guitars had high string tension and would have benefited from less tension if they had an angled headstock. That is incorrect because neck angle is a perceived tension factor and won't affect measurable string tension. On top of that, he is wrong again because an angled headstock would actually make a guitar have a tighter feel, not a looser feel. I wrote to Guitar World about this matter, but never heard back.


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Anyway, that is all for now. If anybody had the patience to read this entire write-up...thanks! If you have any questions, please let me know. I don't pretend to know it all and welcome comments, criticism, and discussion. Also, this thread probably has some typos and I will edit as needed.

[John_L]

Dunlop used to put mass on the package but stopped around the time of the price war in the mid 90's which is when quality dropped across the board. There are one or two brands that keep the quality up but most are crap. Guitarists put up with it.

[Funkfingers]

The only contribution that I can offer is my experience with a Yamaha RBX375 five string bass guitar.

On this 34" scale, three-over-two 10deg headstock, screwed-on neck instrument, any lowest string of any gauge tuned lower than D feels flaccid and just plain wrong. I tried strings down to .140 without success. Eventually, I restrung the instrument EADGC 110, 85, 60, 40, 25. It feels pretty even all the way across the fingerboard. It is brilliant for two-handed tapping stuff a la Chapman Stick. Through overdrive, power chords on the highest two strings sound very meaty. The SD/Basslines Phase 1 pickups and STC-3 EQ probably help in this regard.

[John_L]

One special case is Godin. Most string brands to cut cost make the stings shorter which is fine for a six a side and just about okay for a three a side. But on the asymmetric Godin head design you can have fourth strings not reach the tuner at all.

[Chad]

The only contribution that I can offer is my experience with a Yamaha RBX375 five string bass guitar.

On this 34" scale, three-over-two 10deg headstock, screwed-on neck instrument, any lowest string of any gauge tuned lower than D feels flaccid and just plain wrong. I tried strings down to .140 without success. Eventually, I restrung the instrument EADGC 110, 85, 60, 40, 25. It feels pretty even all the way across the fingerboard. It is brilliant for two-handed tapping stuff a la Chapman Stick. Through overdrive, power chords on the highest two strings sound very meaty. The SD/Basslines Phase 1 pickups and STC-3 EQ probably help in this regard.

Hello. Thanks for the input. Have you played with a low B on other bass guitars? Is it pretty much the same or was the RBX375 noticeably different in that regard? I'm wondering if it is simply a factor of the large change in measurable tension that a low B causes.....or something else.

BTW, I'm not a bass player, so my experience in that area is pretty much nil. However, the same principles mentioned in this thread apply.

[Chad]

John L: What in your opinion are some of the best brand/model strings on the market currently? From your avatar, I can probably guess one. However, I have heard about inconsistency with DR strings. I tried them years ago and didn't care for them, but I couldn't really pinpoint why.

As far as string lengths, I have ran into that with my Jazzmaster. On the high E string, considering the long string length between the bridge and tremolo, the long span between the nut and high E tuner, and the 25.5" scale length, I have come close to running out of string length needed to properly string the high E. But it worked out. I haven't played or re-strung that guitar in a LONG time, so I don't know if D'Addario has changed the length of their EXL strings.

[Funkfingers]

Have you played with a low B on other bass guitars? Is it pretty much the same or was the RBX375 noticeably different in that regard? I'm wondering if it is simply a factor of the large change in measurable tension that a low B causes.....or something else.

Yes, I have played other bass guitars that featured a low B string or in drop tunings.

No, the lack of tension issue on my Yamaha is not common to all 34" scale bass guitars. I would happily invest in a MusicMan Stringray V if they would only give it the same per string spacing as a four string Fender Precision Bass. (Here, I'm wholly in agreement with Anthony Jackson.)

If you want to get deeply into this topic, Anthony Jackson has to be one of THE men to check out.

[Chad]

Yes, I have played other bass guitars that featured a low B string or in drop tunings.

No, the lack of tension issue on my Yamaha is not common to all 34" scale bass guitars. I would happily invest in a MusicMan Stringray V if they would only give it the same per string spacing as a four string Fender Precision Bass. (Here, I'm wholly in agreement with Anthony Jackson.)

If you want to get deeply into this topic, Anthony Jackson has to be one of THE men to check out.

I took a look at some pics of that guitar online and found nothing that really explains your experience. I'd be curious what the neck angle is on those guitars. Appears it is a bolt-neck and has a bridge that sits low to the body, so I'd guess they have very little neck angle. That would account for less compliance, but I wouldn't think it would be enough to make the drastic difference you noted.

I have noticed that two guitars can be almost exactly the same except if one has a little thicker neck the guitar can seem to play tighter. And vice versa for a thinner neck. Does the RBX375 have a thin neck?

[Bludave]

I don't really study it, nor do I care to. I use 13's on all my acoustics & 11's on all my electrics. It works for me!

My reasons were really very simple for settling on these gauges. I was having difficulty keeping my electrics in tune(I had 10's on them). I was using 13's on my acoustics. Whenever I switched from acoustic to electric it was a struggle to keep and stay in tune. On the recommendation of a good friend and forum member(Wattage) I changed to 11's on my electrics. I did not notice much difference in tension and I did notice a touch less chime with my single coils. Overall I think the choice was right for me. I don't put a lot of stock in all the formulas to calculate string tension...... I put a set of strings on and play. If they don't feel right under my fingers, then I change them. If they do feel good under my fingers and they give me the sound, tone & life I am looking for, then I stay with them. Currently (about the last 10 years or so) I have been using D'Addario XL 115's on my electrics and the J17's on my acoustics. I get about 3 months life out of a set(I don't play the same guitar every day) and they sound fine....... Problem solved!

[Chad]

I don't put a lot of stock in all the formulas to calculate string tension...... I put a set of strings on and play. If they don't feel right under my fingers, then I change them. If they do feel good under my fingers and they give me the sound, tone & life I am looking for, then I stay with them.

I totally agree and that is really the exact point of this thread (see Q&A question 1).

I study this because I'm interested in the "why" aspect of what happens with different guitars and setups.

I also created this thread because there are several forum threads out there preaching calculated string tension as the gospel and that is only part of the story.

[post toastie]

i´m glad you did this thread. i have felt for a long time that string length mattered.

[octavedoctor]

Chad this is a very, very good post. Outstanding in fact; one of the best I have ever seen on this forum. You have clearly thought far more about this than the "average Joe" you claim to be.

There is so much BS talked about strings and tension it's nice to see someone who actually gives it some thought and comes to a reasoned conclusion rather than jumping the gun and making assumptions based on faulty reasoning.

The only thing I might take issue on is the effect of break angle, which I don't think has the effect you ascribe to it but then this might be a matter of "perception" rather than measurable effect. Or as William James might have put it -

"Whilst part of what we perceive comes through our senses from the object before us, another part (and it may be the larger part) always comes out of our own mind."
— William James (The Principles of Psychology)

This should go to the vault, really, it's a valuable reference.

[Diego]

I have nothing to add to this discussion, but I just wanted to say that it's a great chunk of work and factual conclusions you've put up here Chad,
and it's been very informative, so thank you!

This should go to the Vault!

[MattPete]

My V has a slinkier feel than my SG with the same strings. I figure that it has to do with the lateral break-angle of the SG (er, Les Paul) headstock vs. the relatively straight pull behind the nut for the V. The SG break-angle adds friction at the nut compared to the V. Thus, the extra length behind the nut has a much larger effect (i.e. it allows the extra length to make things slinkier) in the V compared to the SG. As an addded bonus, the strings are less likely to bind (as in never) at the nut in V compared to the SG (as in too often).

[orangecountycarl]

The only thing I might take issue on is the effect of break angle, which I don't think has the effect you ascribe to it but then this might be a matter of "perception" rather than measurable effect.

Break angle very much has a real effect. I have known this for 25 years. I used to adjust my Les Paul's tail piece so that the strings *barely* angled down over the bridge (they would almost pop out of the bridge string inserts). I used a set of stock .012s (with an unwound 3rd .018) and I got the most ballsy tone (like Malcolm Young), strings that stayed in tune, and they played as if they were .010s.

[fenderguy12]

I recently purchased a les paul guitar and I was wondering how I could get the tension on it to feel more like my fender? I dont know if this would help but I use 10 gauge strings on both guitars. Does anybody have any suggestions as to what I should try?

[octavedoctor]

That ain't going to happen; the guitars are completely different. This is what Chad has been trying to say. The top string will never have as much 'give" as the Fender as there is not as much string behind the nut and the Les Paul has a stop tailpiece so there is no trem to alter the string's response to applied strain.

Appreciate the Les Paul for what it is and does rather than look to get it the same as the Fender...

however you could try using 9 -46 (hybrid Slinkys) on the Les Paul. That would help but if you read through what Chad has posted you will see that it's not just about tension.