Anyone Watching The News About The Shooting In Tucson AZ?

[Lucid_Lunatic]

You could probably use a hand gun to open cans of beer too . . . but I wouldn't accept that as an argument that it's the primary function of the weapon. I don't think you can say that the average person buys a handgun because he's thinking of putting animals out of their misery. (As an aside . . . what's the difference between finishing the deer off with a pistol and your rifle that you're already carrying? When I've been hunting the idea is usually to carry as little as possible so that you can travel more easily. It seems weird that you would pack an ineffective weapon for hunting on the off chance that you might need to use it to deliver a coup-de-grace to a wounded animal.)

From first hand experience, if I'm in the woods, I have a large caliber pistol on my hip. You get into a pack of feral hogs and the lever action or bolt action rifle won't get you through.

On an extended hunting trip, you're right about carrying as little as you need, but in dangerous game territory, things you need include a battery of firearms for whatever type of situation. If I'm doing an overnight on the river by myself, I have a backpack, a pistol on my side, a high powered rifle and a shotgun, (usually a short pistol gripped Mossberg). It's seldom I need all 3 guns on any given trip, but when I need that particular one, I'm always glad I lugged them in.

[Bones]

From first hand experience, if I'm in the woods, I have a large caliber pistol on my hip. You get into a pack of feral hogs and the lever action or bolt action rifle won't get you through.

On an extended hunting trip, you're right about carrying as little as you need, but in dangerous game territory, things you need include a battery of firearms for whatever type of situation. If I'm doing an overnight on the river by myself, I have a backpack, a pistol on my side, a high powered rifle and a shotgun, (usually a short pistol gripped Mossberg). It's seldom I need all 3 guns on any given trip, but when I need that particular one, I'm always glad I lugged them in.

Feral hogs are cuddly. If I see one I hug it.

[Lucid_Lunatic]

Feral hogs are cuddly. If I see one I hug it.

If I see one, I shoot it and have a bar-b-q

[stratobastard]

shoot em all!

[stratobastard]

If I see one, I shoot it and have a bar-b-q

too bad they're always loaded with worms

[IanBallard]

I dunno . . . it looks to me like easy access to guns tends to increase their illegal use.

Don't get me wrong . . . I understand that the majority of Americans seem to want their guns. That's cool if you guys feel safer with them, but it's never something that I would vote for.

Arizona has a high gun death rate... take a guess what country borders them to the South? It's not the GUNS themselves that are isolated here, the DRUG issue is WHY those illegal guns are so prevalent. Why does the UK have a low instance of gun violence? Because they are not bordered by a corrupt drug cartel-run nation. I can totally see why Glock sales when up and ammo sales went up after this. People in Arizona are scared of the violence from Mexico moving northward, which it already is. The capital of drug gang violence in the world is just a few miles south of Texas.

Banning powerful, high-round guns in America will just create another black market for Mexicans to use here. The CIA has been arming all kinds of folks for decades and the guns don't go away. The CIA is on Congressional record, letting drug into America too.

Is it really a gun problem, or is it a drug prohibition problem? Take the game away from gangs and they have to find a new racket for get a real job. Drugs aren't a wonderful thing, but no law will ever destroy the demand for them. Ever.

This kid was a Class A wackaloon, not a right-winger, not a Tea Partier, not a cognitive functioning person at all. He was kicked out of college for death threats to people, was sending suggestive messages to Ms. Giffords (they went to the same synagogue btw) and doing all kinds of things that should have sparked interest in the FBI and police, but nobody took action. He was crying out for help in an empty chamber of apathy and now we have death and disfigurement that should not have ever happened. He likely did not attain the gun legally and so all the gun restrictions in the world, would not have saved these people.

[Lucid_Lunatic]

He likely did not attain the gun legally and so all the gun restrictions in the world, would not have saved these people.

Actually they showed the gun store on the news he bought it from. Right after he went through a background check and was approved by............ THE FEDERAL GOVT. For those of you who haven't purchased a gun in the U.S. from a dealer, here's what you go through. You fill out pretty much your life history with all vital info and it's called in to the NCIS for a check. If you are a first time buyer and not in the system, it usually takes a couple days before they call the shop back and approve you. If you have a speeding ticket, they know about it, although that type of offense won't keep you from buying a gun. What I'm trying to say is, this guy had not actually done anything to show up on the radars, and no matter what laws could be enacted, none could have possibly worked to have kept this from happening.


In all honesty, if he had bought it on the "black market" (really no such thing on legal guns because it's perfectly legal for individuals to buy, sell or trade guns, he would have saved money over buying from a retailer.

If any type of guns are "banned" again, (keep in mind, anything produced before the ban date and is already here will still be available), it will form a "black market" on just those products. They will cost more and if the history of the last ban showed us anything, will actually be made more available and easier to find. The reason I say this is because before the assualt ban of 94, most gun shops didn't carry many extra mags, especially pawnshops, etc. By 95, every shop or individual with an FFL had advertisements for huge selections of pre ban weapons and mags. It was like that everywhere. For 10 years the Shotgun News was even 3 and 4 times thicker every week from the extra ads. Only difference was instead of $20 for a high cap mag, they soared to $100 and up, and the public bought them as fast as they could be sold.

[LesStrat]

We have drifted far away from the fact that a disturbed individual caused this incident. There are numerous reports that Sheriff Dupnik KNEW about Loughner and did not charge him for previous threats.

Instead of finger-pointing and potentially interfering with Loughner's prosecution, maybe the good Sheriff could focus on completing the investigation. But no, he'd rather do political damage control by blaming others for the actions of this disturbed young man.



This approach is no more rational than blaming Ozzie for a teenage suicide.

[misterwhizzy]

We have drifted far away from the fact that a disturbed individual caused this incident.

Bingo. A crazy kid did something crazy. Why does it have to be a systemic problem?

I like guns. I like hunting. I fed my family a buffalo, and we ate like kings for several months. Did I do it with a pistol? No, I put him down with a .300 Weatherby, and I shot him through the eye when he was still breathing.

Guess what. That's not a half bad story, and I didn't waste the animal, and I didn't kill, maim, or threaten anyone. I didn't kill for killing's sake, and I didn't infringe on anyone's rights. And I used a pistol to get the job done.

But all that is missing the point. You don't like guns? Fine, don't buy them. You don't feel safer with them? Fine, don't move to the South. But don't try to take away my Constitutionally-guaranteed freedom.

[Lucid_Lunatic]

Fine, don't move to the South.

I been saying that for years....

[IanBallard]

Reports indicate that he had a permit and purchased the gun legally.
Apparently quite close to the shooting which indicates premeditation.
At the time of his permit being issued there was no official record of ,or documented mental illness as there are federal laws against the mentally ill owning firearms legally that have been in place since 1968.
However reports are coming in that say he had a history of erratic behaviour and drug use to those who knew him.
Apparently he had been recently booted from school and told he needed a mental evaluation,(which he refused) by his school for uttering threats and other behaviour.

Yep. I just read that...I stand corrected. But even if he were denied a permit, he would have been bound and determined to get one and would have, one way or another.

[PUCKBOY99]

The best thing I've heard in reference to this tragedy came from Steve Doocy on Fox News: "You can't outsmart crazy"

You can Monday morning quarterback these things to death, but it always comes down to a sick individual did a really bad thing to a lot of innocent people.

Easy access to a gun just made it easier for him, but he would've found another way in the end.

[Arkitkt]

Yep. I just read that...I stand corrected. But even if he were denied a permit, he would have been bound and determined to get one and would have, one way or another.

From what I read, there is no such thing as a permit in the state of Arizona. You can concealed-carry to your heart's content. It's even legal to carry in a bar or restaurant as long as you don't intend to consume alcohol.

Regarding the federal background check - when it comes to mental health-issues, it's a joke. Most states don't even submit the little information they have into the federal database.

The whole thing comes down to a simple fact: As long as guns are readily available and all attempts to limit their purchase even by nutcases like Loughner are futile because of the absolute interpretation of the 2nd amendment, the deaths of the victims of this tragedy or the one at Virginia Tech are an unavoidable consequence.

[Bones]

I feel like this thread sucks now.

[Gr8Scott]

I feel like this thread sucks now.

LOL. Took a bit for the smell to reach all the way down to Kennesaw I guess...

[IanBallard]

From what I read, there is no such thing as a permit in the state of Arizona. You can concealed-carry to your heart's content. It's even legal to carry in a bar or restaurant as long as you don't intend to consume alcohol.

Regarding the federal background check - when it comes to mental health-issues, it's a joke. Most states don't even submit the little information they have into the federal database.

The whole thing comes down to a simple fact: As long as guns are readily available and all attempts to limit their purchase even by nutcases like Loughner are futile because of the absolute interpretation of the 2nd amendment, the deaths of the victims of this tragedy or the one at Virginia Tech are an unavoidable consequence.

Readily available meaning... legally... illegally? I can tell you right this moment I know half a dozen folks I could illegally buy semi-autos, AK's whatever if I have the money to put down and I live in Kansas. Arizona is right above the drug violence capital of the world. Illegal drugs... illegal guns. Both are profitable. I'll keep saying until people get it. No offense, but I think people overestimate the "power" of prohibition.... well, at least the power to stop it. The empowerment it creates towards criminals however is immense.

[IanBallard]

I feel like this thread sucks now.

It sucked from the very beginning. I should never even have been created and this event should never have happened. But I think the contention here, is HOW it could have been prevented. Frankly, I just don't know.

Maybe discovering a new Zodiac sign and the changes to the astrological might awaken mankind? Maybe the Mayans weren't prediction the "end of the world" but the end of the old age of violent and corrupt mankind? I can only hope.

[Jessie's ghost]

[Lucid_Lunatic]

Readily available meaning... legally... illegally? I can tell you right this moment I know half a dozen folks I could illegally buy semi-autos, AK's whatever if I have the money to put down and I live in Kansas.

Unless they are stolen or converted to full auto or you're a convicted felon, you'd be making a 100% legal transaction. I've yet to figure out why so many people think that if you don't buy a gun from a shop, it's illegal.

[Lucid_Lunatic]

From what I read, there is no such thing as a permit in the state of Arizona. You can concealed-carry to your heart's content. It's even legal to carry in a bar or restaurant as long as you don't intend to consume alcohol.

Regarding the federal background check - when it comes to mental health-issues, it's a joke. Most states don't even submit the little information they have into the federal database.

The whole thing comes down to a simple fact: As long as guns are readily available and all attempts to limit their purchase even by nutcases like Loughner are futile because of the absolute interpretation of the 2nd amendment, the deaths of the victims of this tragedy or the one at Virginia Tech are an unavoidable consequence.

Guns aren't the problem. If all guns had been outlawed and confiscated 100 years ago we would just see more bombings and other methods to kill and wound. When someone like that snaps, they will use whatever is available.