Why won't the damn thing stay in tune ?

[wolf5150]

Right, I've just completed my Warmoth build and can't get it to stay in tune.

It has a Wilkinson VS401 trem with lock down saddles, LSR roller nut and Locking tuners.

Bend the G string and it's flat, dip the trem and it return in tune.

Dip the trem again and it returns sharp .

What's going on ????????????

Suggestions please .

[Travis H]

new string will do that. stretch the strings that might help

[Razix]

I'll ask the painfully obvious question first: Have the strings stretched out properly yet? I'm guessing you already thought of that, but I just want to be sure...

If that isn't the problem, something has to be binding or slipping somewhere. Make sure your locking tuners are properly locked, and make sure the bridge saddles are locking right.

I've never used a roller nut before, so I don't know too much about them.

Good luck with everything!

[John_L]

It's probably just the balance of the strings vs the springs. You need to get the springs tight enough that between them and the strings they return the bridge to the same point each time. It's one of those annoying little jobs that takes a little time but it isn't a big thing.

[wolf5150]

John, hadn't thought that maybe the spring tension wasn't quite balanced.. I'll mess around with that now.

Good suggestion, thank you.

[IanBallard]

You might check to make sure the tuning machines are tightly fastened. I had some tuning issues a while back and realized a couple of the tuners were loose.

[sosomething]

I know you're using a roller nut so it shouldn't be the problem, but your symptoms really seem indicative of a bind happening up around the nut/headstock.

Are you using string trees?

[wolf5150]

Ok, tried all the suggestions, but it's only on the bend and release now. , also have it with the B string but a lesser extent.
Tune to pitch, bend the note, string comes back flat, drop the trem, brings them back in tune.

It seems like they're sticking somewhere, but I got the hardware on the basis that there's no unwanted movement, especially the roller nut.

[Funkfingers]

Are all of the parts brand new? They might need to "settle in" for a while.

What shape ball ends on the strings? What shape has been machined where the ball end sits in the sustain block? There could be latitude for movement between these two metal surfaces.

[wolf5150]

The block isn't the issue, although I thought it was a possibility.

I had the problem with the original steel block and just fitted a new Killer Brass block hoping it would cure the problem... obviously it hasn't ... has improved the midrange though

really frustrated

[wolf5150]

It's gotta be the nut right ????

[IanBallard]

It's gotta be the nut right ????

A roller nut? No. Did you remove the strings when you checked the tuners? You can't tell if they are loose when they are holding tension.

[wolf5150]

Yea mate, the tuners are solid.

It doesn't happen on my Anderson or Musicman, only this one.

I hate a guitar that won't stay in tune

[AudioWonderland]

Ok, tried all the suggestions, but it's only on the bend and release now. , also have it with the B string but a lesser extent.
Tune to pitch, bend the note, string comes back flat, drop the trem, brings them back in tune.

It seems like they're sticking somewhere, but I got the hardware on the basis that there's no unwanted movement, especially the roller nut.

Roller nut or not I think your binding at the nut. Are the ball bearings freely moving on the nut? Do roller nuts require lubrication?

[wolf5150]

I've been researching and there's almost no info on the roller nut online.

All I can find is to keep it dry and blow with an air duster occasionally.

I might try and strip it down to see if I can find a problem.

[IanBallard]

I've been researching and there's almost no info on the roller nut online.

All I can find is to keep it dry and blow with an air duster occasionally.

I might try and strip it down to see if I can find a problem.

FWIW, I use a brass nut with some WD-40 dabbed in there and I have very minimal tuning issues... but my setup is down-only, not floating. Frankly man, I just wouldn't mess with a floating setup unless I had a double-locking situation. I mean, Jeff Beck can do it, but he's... well... Jeff Beck.

It would be easier to isolate the problem if you blocked the trem for down-only. That way you could rule out the floating balance as a factor. Is the route recessed into the body or can the trem lay flat against the body?

[Low_fidelity2100]

What gauge strings are you using? Roller nuts are generally made to only accept a very limited range of strings...Any bigger or smaller than the recommended range, and they'll bind and you'll have tuning issues. Also, did you install the nut correctly? (I dunno whether warmoth does that for you or not)

Also, is the neck securely bolted to the body? Is there any looseness or wiggle room on either side of the neck pocket? Did you shim the neck at all?
The Posts the Wilkinson trem sets on... Are they raised far from the body, or screwed down closer to the body? The bushings the posts screw into, did you install them correctly/straight? Is there ANY wiggle to the posts at all? How many trem springs are you using? Have you checked for any burrs on the trem posts, or knife edge of the trem?

[TheLivingDead]

I'd like to chime in and say I've got the *exact* same problem on my Xaviere XV-870. I could never figure out where the string was catching (I can hear a ping when I dive it to return the G to pitch). I always figured getting a set of locking tuners would solve it, but maybe not.

[wolf5150]

Your " ping " is classic sticking nut noise.

My neck is attached via inserts so it's rock solid.

The bridge inserts were fitted by Warmoth and look ok.
The posts themselves are fairly low and there's no apparent wiggle.

I've stripped and reassembled the roller nut and the problem remains.

I'm stumped... gonna have to take it to a tech for his opinion.

Thanks for all the advice folks, much appreciated.

[SJ318]

Hi, I fixed my J.Beck model like this: (ps-long read)
1. smoothed out with small drill and round file where the string leaves the block on the way to the saddle.
2. smoothed out the bridge plate hole with drill so wide the string does not even touch the bridge plate.
Stay with me, please
3. I marked roller nut w/marker and only 1 or 2 of those tine ball bearings were even moving, but at least I now knew that even if the didn't move, they would be nice slick surfaces w/3&1 oil.
4. I took the lsr apart CAREFULLY and cleaned every thing w/ rub. alcohol.
I loosened the the little claws that hold them in place, as some of them were touching-I did this with the utmost CARE. I removed the foam backing as it was touching the string just behind the ball bearings. I don't care if it pings, mine doesn't by the way.
5. Locking tuning pegs-get Schaller, they are fast to use.
6. springs J.Beck style-2 outside 1 middle to the claw to make a fan or a V shape ( V is claw to block)
7. This part was very hair raising: I drilled some metal out of the hole in the block CAREFULLY so the ball end was a little closer to the block opening.
At this point I seat the springs evenly so when I pull up I get open G to b-flat, and open d to e and open top e to f.
Like carl verheyen but I didn't slant the claw.
I hope you are still there, almost done. The string now hits nothing on the way to the saddle-I have eliminated 2 hang up spots. oil the lsr with 3&1 oil.
bend the s##t out off them up as well as down. if you have locking pegs, unlock them and pull them tight again, re-lock.
My guitar stays in tune all the time. This works!!
No one believes me. On TGP some guy told me to get a life. Some comment for such an immense effort on my part. Heck, call me if you want, I don't know how to do this on web pages so you are welcome to.
Steve B.
I am dead serious