thinking about buying an LTD or maybe an ESP Eclipse; opinions wanted

[ricc]

So I'm thinking about picking up a used ESP or new/used LTD Eclipse. Wondering what the difference is - not in specs, but in real world use. So, anyone who has used an ESP and an LTD, why is one better than the other?

thanks

[Wattage]

Had an ESP Eclipse II IMO far and away a much nicer guitar than the LTD. The build quality is fantastic and they play great. Used you'll find them for what the LTD's are new.

[King IzzO)))]

I've had several of each. If you have the $$$, get the MIJ. The Korean made LTD's are very good, but for the price of a new EC1000 you can get a real nice used MIJ ESP. A used LTD EC1K should be a good deal at around $400, but they do use cheap pots. If you don't care about looks, the early low rung LTD's were also Korean made and are surprisingly good guitars, and you can find them dirt cheap. I love my EC100.

Do not mess with the Indonesian/Chinese LTD's.

[Johtosotku]

I've found out that the LTDs can really vary in quality while the ESPs are usually very consistent and very, very good. I'd go for the used ESP any day of the week.

[marvelous_seven]

Do not mess with the Indonesian/Chinese LTD's.

Damn right

[Wattage]

Not saying they aren't out there but I have never picked up a bad MIJ ESP ever.

Replaced my Eclipse with a very nice SG and I am less than a 100% sure I did the right thing. Build quality, quality of the parts used, feel of the guitar were all excellent. Only thing I didn't like were the EMG pickups which I quickly replaced after I bought it.

[crguti]

quality-wise
ESP = all guitars are top notch.
LTD = it depends of the model.

your choice.

[innerdreamrecords.co]

I owned a Viper LTD and a EC400 LTD and have played many ESP's. The LTD's are good solid import guitars and the ESP's are very good guitars for their price. The LTD's imo are as good as any import in that price range that is readily available in the stores.

[astrozombie]

obviously go for the ESP if possible.

I will say: out of all the shred sticks i've ever played, ESP makes my favorite neck. (it was a Mirage).

[mwalluk]

ESP LTD 400+ lines are rock solid, ESP are very very good. However, I would rather get a nice GIbson for the price of an ESP Eclipse

[Chad]

I've owned several MIJ ESPs and they are quality instruments. Some are better than others, but that is largely a "mojo/personal bonding" kinda thing.

I had said I'd never get an LTD because I thought they were meh. But I wanted to try P-Rails, so I bought an LTD PB-401 while they were on clearance. It is made in Indonesia. I am blown away at the quality of that instrument. Fit and finish is honestly as good as any ESPs I've had. One area where they lack is in the wiring. My PB-401 has Alpha pots and P-Rails, which are good, but the wiring was kind of sloppy. The guitar had a bad switch (I got a free replacement) and I touched up some solder joints and now all is good. On the other hand, the wiring job in a MIJ ESP looks like artwork. Some of the neatest wiring I've ever seen. I just wish the PB-401 had a wider neck, but that's a subjective thing. Really, I wish both ESP and LTD would use more 1 11/16" nut widths instead of 1 5/8".

By the way, ESP is one of the most fascinating companies out there IMO. They have more levels of quality hierarchy than any other manufacturer I know. A lot of their stuff is only available in certain regions of the world. They have four (I believe) different custom shops operating in Japan. They don't have any set logos or headstock shapes. Who knows how many LTD factories they have.

[King IzzO)))]

I don't know how fascinating it is, it's more upsetting to me as a long time ESP user/enthusiast. The Edwards stuff used to be made in the ESP shop in Japan, but now I hear they're made in Korea where the high end LTD are made. The older LTD low end used to be made there, now they're made in China... and they charge the same prices for them while paying much less to build them. I know they're trying to make money, but that seems like the main motivating factor since about 2001. I'm still saving for a Viper and one of those flat black LP Custom look-a-like Eclipses.

I've never played a Gibson, or anything else outside a PRS, that equaled the build quality of a Jap ESP.

[KeeperOS]

I have owned neither but have played several.

I never ever gelled with the M-series but the Horizon is perhaps one of my all time favorite guitars. I have played both ESP and higher-end (Korean) LTD models and let me tell you, the LTD are GREAT but the ESP are truly custom-shop quality, they're phenomenal.

If given a choice, well there's no question, an ESP, new or old/used would get my vote.

BTW, the Korean LTD are great and in stark difference from the Chinese/Indonesian/whatever low-end LTDs which are perhaps some of the worst guitars I've ever got my hands on...

[Chad]

I don't know how fascinating it is, it's more upsetting to me as a long time ESP user/enthusiast. The Edwards stuff used to be made in the ESP shop in Japan, but now I hear they're made in Korea where the high end LTD are made. The older LTD low end used to be made there, now they're made in China... and they charge the same prices for them while paying much less to build them. I know they're trying to make money, but that seems like the main motivating factor since about 2001. I'm still saving for a Viper and one of those flat black LP Custom look-a-like Eclipses.

I've never played a Gibson, or anything else outside a PRS, that equaled the build quality of a Jap ESP.

When I was talking about ESP being a "fascinating" company, I was mainly referring to ESP and not LTD or any of the other many spin-off brands. I like my LTD PB-401 but 99% of my interest in the brand centers on MIJ ESP guitars.

To add/clarify, on what is fascinating: their whole history is interesting. The whole New York thing. As far as headstocks/logos, they do about anything. It really seems their primary focus is putting out quality instruments and they don't get tied into any one thing too heavily as far as design. Very open minded. That mindset has also lead to the copying issue, which has created a lot of irritation among other companies and fans of those companies, law suits, etc. But really their pursuit is making the best guitars possible. I've heard the reason they have four custom shops in Japan is to compete against each other for perfection/quality to see who can be the best.

As far as Edwards, older LTD, etc. I'd say they are just trying to keep the quality hierarchy clearly defined. And keep the focus on ESP (and Navigator too I guess). As far as keeping the same pricing while using different countries to manufacture, if people are paying it....well, they're in business to make money, so you can't blame them. They're pretty much saying, "if you want MIJ, buy ESP or Navigator".

Again, my PB-401 is Indonesian and the fit and finish is unreal. Perhaps I just got a good one.......because I noticed KeeperOS said they are terrible as a whole. I can't vouch because, again, my interest is mainly in MIJ ESP.

[KeeperOS]

Not sure at what tier your PB-401 is but if it's got P-Rails then it can't be that low on the food-chain.
What I said I said it for the LOW-end of their guitars, they were really bad. Sloppy all around. Almost felt like they were half-done. For the same price other companies had a LOT more bang for the buck.

I have played MII guitars that kicked some serious bum so I know they can be great if they are given the means and opportunity to be so.

My guess is if you like it and know real ESPs then it's gotta be at least one of the mid-end models. Again, ESP can be great when they want to, even if it isn't themselves building the instrument.
Like you said, they have that complex hierarchy for a reason and seem to like to keep their products clearly separate.

[Aceman]

The only ESP's I pick up are LTD EC1000's of various sorts. Every one has been a solid solid instrument - plus Duncans!

[SamusChief]

I got lucky with my LTD. I swapped all the cheapo hardware and now it plays as well as a standard ESP. The LTD Deluxe series is pretty consistent from the 3 or so I've played. Think Epiphone vs. Gibson.

[Jackson Distortion]

[speed2dirt]

ESP Eclipse used for $475! It's a late 90's model.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/msg/2198665193.html

[KeeperOS]

I could go for that...