P-Rails wiring diagram?

[Azrael-Rising]

Hi everyone. I'm not sure if its possible:
I have a currently own a Gibson SG Standard equipped with 2 Humbuckers, 1 Volume, 1 Tone, 1 3-way toggle, and 2 2-way mini toggles for coil splitting. Is there a way or a wiring diagram that shows how to wire the guitar with 2 P-rails,1, 1 3-way toggle, and 2 3-way minitoggles to get all 3 tones for each pickup? And to take it one step further, can you add a push/pull pot on the volume to switch between series/parallel, and another on the tone to switch between in/out of phase?
I'm looking to get more out of my guitar, and I'm seriously considering the P-rails. I want to know if I could get that many tones.

[Unbreakableidea]

P-Rails, as far as I can tell, are wired just like any other standard SD humbucking pu.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support...=prails_wiring

If you want to get the most options possible out of these, I'd suggest using Triple Shot humbucker mounting rings (I've never used them, but they seem really cool and simple to install). This would probably be your best and easiest bet for what you are looking to do.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/product...iple_shot_swi/

Check those links for starters and good luck!

Edit: Also, for future reference, the Seymour Duncan website has a ton of wiring schematics (like the one for the P-Rails I posted above), so always check there first.

[Azrael-Rising]

Thanks for the info.
I checked the website and didn't see the wiring diagram I described.
I thought about using the Triple Shot too, but my guitar doesn't have the pickup bezels/rings, and i'm not sure theres enough room on top of the pickguard to allow the mounting ring.

[Unbreakableidea]

I see, in that case you may have to modify a pre-existing wiring schematic in order to get exactly what you're looking for. Sorry I couldn't be of more help and good luck.

Edit: FYI - here is the size information for the flat model of Triple Shot humbucking rings, so if you want you can measure the current height of your pickups and see if they would fit.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/product...e-shot_t.shtml

[ParameterMan]

Notes:

• P-Rails actually have four sounds - both coils in series sounds much different than in parallel. You may have to just pick which sound you want.
• You can get all four sounds using their wiring #2, but then both pickups' modes are linked.
• You can switch the pickups to be in series with each other using one DPDT switch, but to select series/parallel operation within the pickup you'll need one switch for each pickup. I'd personally prefer the latter.
• Out of phase is not a very useful sound.

[Azrael-Rising]

Notes:

• P-Rails actually have four sounds - both coils in series sounds much different than in parallel. You may have to just pick which sound you want.
• You can get all four sounds using their wiring #2, but then both pickups' modes are linked.
• You can switch the pickups to be in series with each other using one DPDT switch, but to select series/parallel operation within the pickup you'll need one switch for each pickup. I'd personally prefer the latter.
• Out of phase is not a very useful sound.

Thank you to everybody for your help, and diagrams. judging by that last diagram, it seems like the pickups have to be linked, or on the same setting (P90,Rail, humbucker). Is there a way to get all 4 sounds out of each pickup without it being linked to the other. For example, while being in the middle position of the 3-way toggle could you have the neck pickup on the P90 and the bridge on the rail setting? I could go without the in/out of phase option, but being able to individually select the sound from each pickup is crucial. Thats why I was thinking about 2 3-way mini toggles (either on/on/on, or on/off/on - not sure which one would work) and using the push/pulls for the parallel/series switching. (Basically, the opposite of the diagram above)

[Silentium]

judging by that last diagram, it seems like the pickups have to be linked, or on the same setting (P90,Rail, humbucker)

Take a look carefully at my previous post.
All 4 coils works separately.

Two switches for each pup works as a pair. They won't work like one switch for one operation.

[Silentium]

2 on-on switches & 2 push/pull pots acts like the triple shots rings. You can use both pickups separately. For out-of-phase you'll need 2 more swithes.

[ParameterMan]

I've done a little scribbling, and it looks like you have a lot of options if you're willing to dedicate a DPDT on/on/on toggle and a push-pull pot to each pickup. You can have the toggle be p-90/both/rail and the push/pull select series/parallel for the "both" position. You can have the toggle be p-90/parallel/rail and the push/pull override to humbucker, or put the three settings you use most on the toggle and use the push/pull to override to the fourth one. There might also be a way to have the push/pull swap one of the three toggle positions between two sounds.

Anyway, I'm not making diagrams for all those so dream something up and I'll see what can be done.

[Azrael-Rising]

I've done a little scribbling, and it looks like you have a lot of options if you're willing to dedicate a DPDT on/on/on toggle and a push-pull pot to each pickup. You can have the toggle be p-90/both/rail and the push/pull select series/parallel for the "both" position. You can have the toggle be p-90/parallel/rail and the push/pull override to humbucker, or put the three settings you use most on the toggle and use the push/pull to override to the fourth one. There might also be a way to have the push/pull swap one of the three toggle positions between two sounds.

Anyway, I'm not making diagrams for all those so dream something up and I'll see what can be done.

Thank you for your help. I do not need a diagram for every schematic. After talking w/ a lot of people on these forums, the in/out of phase isn't that great of a tonal difference on the P-rail, so I think I will skip that option.
What I really want is a 3-way mini toggle on each pickup (for P90/Hum/Rail switching) and a push/pull for series/parallel (1 push/pull for each pickup). If you have or could make a wiring diagram for it, me and my guitar tech would be eternally grateful! (i don't solder too well)
Basically:
2 P-rails
2 3-way mini toggles, 1 3-way master toggle, 1 push/pull volume, 1 push/pull tone
(1 mini toggle for each pickup - P90/Hum/Rail, 1 Push/pull for each pickup - series/parallel on the humbuckers)

[Silentium]

[ParameterMan]

Well, I may have spoken too soon... what you want may not be possible. I have a ridiculous cold right now and my brains are like oatmeal. Finely-ground, overcooked oatmeal, and I can't think well enough to be sure. So you'll have to wait a bit for any more input from me.

[Azrael-Rising]

No worries, mate. Take your time and feel better. If you get to it, cool. If not, maybe someone else has seen them used with 3-way mini toggles.

[ParameterMan]

Ok, I figgered it out. What you want can be done, but the only way it can be done flips the toggle positions around when engaged. So if the P-90 is "up" normally, operating the series/parallel switch puts it "down". The other option would be to make the push/pull an override that produces the fourth setting no matter the position of the toggle.

The fundamental issue at hand is the nature of the DPDT on/on/on - there are four connections the switch can make; two are made for two of the positions and two for only one. In parallel operation you need the two that are both on in the middle; for series you want to leave the middle alone and only use the connections made at either end. A DPDT push/pull switch does not have enough poles to switch everything you would need to toggle between modes.

[theryanpaul]

Hello,

I am looking for a way to only use 1 3 way toggle to switch both pick ups to either P90 hum bucker or rail. Has anyone seen something like that? Also Any ideas on how to equalize volume between the individual settings? The only think I can think of is tilting the pickup so that the rail is closer to the strings and the 90 is further away.

Also, Someone suggested reversing the P rails making them upside down to get a more stratlike sound out of the rails. And apparently it doesn't affect the 90s

any Ideas guys??

My guitar tech will be working on this soon and I would love to figure this out.

THanks!

Ryan

[ArtieToo]

Hello,

Hello. Welcome to the forum.

I am looking for a way to only use 1 3 way toggle to switch both pick ups to either P90 hum bucker or rail.

Depends on the type of switch. If you mean an LP-style switch, it won't work. If you mean a simple DPDT on-off-on switch, then its fairly simple. And, mind you, that will be a different switch from the pickup selector switch.

Also Any ideas on how to equalize volume between the individual settings?

Thats not that difficult either. Unusual, but not difficult. I've got a couple of things in the works right now to switch in an L-pad in either of the split or parallel modes, so the output matches the series mode. Its not quite ready for prime time yet, but I'm close.

Stay tuna-ed.

Artie

[theryanpaul]

ok I will stay tuned! Do you have an idea how to wire the mini toggle for that? My tech said I would need 2 to do both pickups but I would Wayy rather have both.

Very excited to see what your solution is for pickup volume equalization. If I can figure out these problems I probably will use these pick ups on most of my guitars.

I just retro fitted my old harmony with these pickups and a Lipstick in the middle. Absolutely loving it!!!

Glad to be in the community!

[theryanpaul]

Hello. Welcome to the forum.



Depends on the type of switch. If you mean an LP-style switch, it won't work. If you mean a simple DPDT on-off-on switch, then its fairly simple. And, mind you, that will be a different switch from the pickup selector switch.



Thats not that difficult either. Unusual, but not difficult. I've got a couple of things in the works right now to switch in an L-pad in either of the split or parallel modes, so the output matches the series mode. Its not quite ready for prime time yet, but I'm close.

Stay tuna-ed.

Artie

Also, What do you think of my solution to equalizing volumes for the two sides of the single coils? I mean hum buckers are gonna be louder no matter what, but I use the singles a ton!

[theryanpaul]

Yes, a DPDT switch is what my tech said wouldn't work. Do you have a schematic or crude Idea of how to make it work? That would be heavenly!

Also, thanks for the warm reception and quick reply!