NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul

[blueman335]

You could look at it that way.

You could also wonder if they don't pop up on ebay much because the utter lack of demand for a used one keeps their resale value in the toilet.

There's days you're entertaining and witty, and then there's days like this. Are you feeling bloated and retaining water?

[IanBallard]

That's cool, man. I think that if it were me, I'd be a little frustrated by the idea of how much more guitar I could have for my $600 than an upgraded Squier.

And then I'd think about what I could sell the upgraded Squier for, and realize I'm probably looking at about 300 bucks, and then I'd feel even worse.

But that's just me.

I think we've been around and around on this before. I have no interest in turning over instruments for profit or out of desperation. That's why I bought gold and silver back when it was affordable for "investment sake". I just need something to play. I wouldn't even expect much if I were to sell it, due to the wear, nicks, dings, scratches and fretwear I've already inflicted on it, but at least it shows I play the thing. That would be another reason I wouldn't (yet) consider an expensive instrument because I'm hard on them.

[formula73]

This is a very long thread and I don't have time to read it. Can someone give me a summary ?

Just arguing about whether the extra...whatever...that comes with an expensive guitar justifies the price over a mid level import.

[sosomething]

There's days you're entertaining and witty, and then there's days like this. Are you feeling bloated and retaining water?

You gotta take the good with the bad, I guess.

I think we've been around and around on this before. I have no interest in turning over instruments for profit or out of desperation. That's why I bought gold and silver back when it was affordable for "investment sake". I just need something to play. I wouldn't even expect much if I were to sell it, due to the wear, nicks, dings, scratches and fretwear I've already inflicted on it, but at least it shows I play the thing. That would be another reason I wouldn't (yet) consider an expensive instrument because I'm hard on them.

I don't turn them over for profit for the sake of profit.

I turn them over to afford nicer, better ones.

I have a EBMM and a Suhr hanging on my wall right now acquired by a combined root investment of $1100.

I started low, traded up, added a little cash here and there, and wound up owning two guitars that I couldn't have afforded individually on the money I started with. Over that time I got to own and play a lot of really cool stuff and learned more about what I liked and didn't like in guitars than I ever could have otherwise.

Maybe that's why I've become so picky about guitars - I've owned 35 of them - no two alike. Some mid-level imports among them, and believe me - there's a difference. I wouldn't keep the capital tied up in the guitars I own now if there wasn't.

[ImmortalSix]

I have a EBMM and a Suhr hanging on my wall right now acquired by a combined root investment of $1100.

I started low, traded up, added a little cash here and there, and wound up owning two guitars that I couldn't have afforded individually on the money I started with. Over that time I got to own and play a lot of really cool stuff and learned more about what I liked and didn't like in guitars than I ever could have otherwise.

Maybe that's why I've become so picky about guitars - I've owned 35 of them - no two alike. Some mid-level imports among them, and believe me - there's a difference. I wouldn't keep the capital tied up in the guitars I own now if there wasn't.

Cool M.O. - I dig it.

[sosomething]

I should give freakin' seminars.

[BloodRose]

People "save money"? I didn't think they did that since the gold standard. I figured it was all about maxing out credit cards in this epoch.

I don't think it's a matter of "blaming" the fam for not going out and pulling out the credit card or breaking open the piggy bank to get a shiny new Gibson Les Paul. I think it's pragmatism. I don't expect THAT much from a $600 Korean guitar, especially at my rudimentary guitar level. Even if I was interested in a Les Paul type guitar, I probably wouldn't want to settle for a Studio or a lower-line production Gibson because I want the thick maple cap, a nice burst finish and I want a solid, non-chambered guitar. If I want a stripped-down, lighter all mahogany Gibson, I'd go for an SG.

Well said, Gibson studios dont impress me.

I have one Squier guitar that I bought "just to have something to plunk around on", but when I got more serious and into focusing on it, I made the decision to incrementally upgrade it over time. A pickup here, a new bridge there, new tuners later, eventually a Floyd, as my playing got better and my demands for tuning stability and certain tones came into being. I really don't need a second guitar until I am in a gainful gigging mode and need a backup. I only spent a total of about $600 on everything and I think what I have now, works and sounds fine. I have no need to buy a Charvel when my alder, Floyd, Duncan, Sperzel-loaded ax is a pretty decent Charvel wanna be that I spent wisely on over time. I could have saved up and waited, but that's a lot of time w/o a guitar and a lot of experience that would have been lost learning how to build, repair and mod guitars. But that's just me...

Same thing for me. I went 11 yrs without a guitar after I got married and pawned my gear. I bought a the nicest, most resonant Squier strat they had in the store for $139. Over time I did the same, bone nut (free under warranty as the plastic one crumbled, sperzels, pups, etc. It is a VERY resonant guitar and a great player. not worth much to sell But invaluable in the experience I gained working on it..

That's cool, man. I think that if it were me, I'd be a little frustrated by the idea of how much more guitar I could have for my $600 than an upgraded Squier.

And then I'd think about what I could sell the upgraded Squier for, and realize I'm probably looking at about 300 bucks, and then I'd feel even worse.

But that's just me.

I see your point, but if Id have had to wait until I could save up $600, I wouldnt have had a guitar for another several years. I did my most piece by piece as I could afford parts. Believe me, Id have rather bought some hot guitar, or bought back the Charvel I had to pawn years before..

Anyhow, I have learned that yeah, save an buy what you want if you can cuz then you wont always wonder or want it. If not, get the best you can afford and enjoy MAKIN MUSIC!!! And hopefully things will get better and you can then save for whatcha want!

I loved what Jol said so much that I sigged it.. Please read:

[sosomething]

What is this "I got married and sold all my guitars" sh1t????

Please, I don't mean to offend. You are far from the first person I have seen say that kind of thing, so I'm not singling you out.

But seriously.

I got married and I didn't sell a damn thing.

What is going on that +wife = -guitars for so many dudes? Did you trade them for her? (Did she come with a case?)

This boggles my mind

If you were having triplets or something and needed cash for the crazy medical bills, that's one thing...

[formula73]

What is this "I got married and sold all my guitars" sh1t????

Please, I don't mean to offend. You are far from the first person I have seen say that kind of thing, so I'm not singling you out.

But seriously.

I got married and I didn't sell a damn thing.

What is going on that +wife = -guitars for so many dudes? Did you trade them for her? (Did she come with a case?)

This boggles my mind

If you were having triplets or something and needed cash for the crazy medical bills, that's one thing...

It usually comes with kids and shifting priorities. I can live off ramen for a month to buy a set of pickups but I can't do that to my family, not to mention any money my wife would make at work would go straight into child care. At this point, I'm selling guitars and amps I don't use because they're no longer useful for me, they're taking up space, and I could use the cash for debts and baby stuff. Diapers, formula, and clothes that are outgrown nearly as soon as they're brought home add up, man. Families ain't cheap, even with my military benefits. Do I put the family through hardships for a few pieces of painted wood?

[oilpit]

Before I say what I am going to say, I want you to know that I truly believe that you (Blueman) are probably the most helpful member on this forum, I have benefited more than once from your advice and this place would not be the same without you.

but...

If you're a mediocre bedroom player, no, a high-end guitar will not magically make you a better player...

NOBODY F*CKING THINKS THAT

We get it, you like your Epihpones, and don't like people pushing high end equiptment on people, that's fine. But your standard response (Good guitars don't make you a good player, you shouldn't take nice guitars to gigs, with a pickup swap cheap guitars will sound as good as nice guitars) is really, really stupid...it only applies to a very narrow group of people and yet you preach it to everybody, it get's old quick. I realize that this issue is divided down the middle in a big way, but everytime I read one of your posts in a thread like this I just can't understand how such a knowledgable, inteligent guy can have such a closed mined, dogmatic opinion of something as subjective as which guitars people choose to play.

[dlc1953]

I don't see Bluesmans OP as dogmatic at all. It's a view-point shared by alot of members.mine included. And he doesn't say the buy cheaper guitars is the only way to approach buying. If you got the ching and want a Gibby buy it. But the concept that there stuff is so much better than everyone else's that it warrants the extra dough is not an opinion shared by a heck of alot of buyer's. I dig my 3000 so I got a bias in that direction. But I also got a guitar I really like and compared to several entry level Gibby's before buying and I got about 500 to a G worth of cash [depending on model] I wouldnt have after buyin a Gib. That makes me happy and makes sense to me.

[Jessie's ghost]

Often the perception that a thing is, or is not, worth the money is grounded in whether or not the individual in question can afford it. For example:

- Ever wonder if the guy with the $59 pawnshop reject grumbles to himself that he's just as good as those stuck-up rich kids across the street with their Epiphones?

- Ever look down your nose at the guy with the bolt-on budget LP copy while you smugly held your set-neck LP copy that cost all of $200 more?

- Since tone is in the hands and money can't buy talent, ever wonder why nobody here plays that $59 pawnshop special, and why so many of us are into swapping pickups, magnets, caps, pots, and other nerdery, some of which probably makes less of a difference than what were talking about between one guitar and another?

- Has anyone else considered the value of splurging on an expensive guitar, only to learn that it really was you holding yourself back, then accepting that you need to put some serious work into your playing, and taking your new guitar to the woodshed to get busy becoming a better player? If someone really needs a $2,000 lesson like that, it's probably a pretty good value, all things considered. How much money could you spend in a decade making sideways moves between mid-price guitars, thinking that each new instrument would be "the one"? I've known people who've done this, and it's sad. Go ahead and laugh at silly people who have more money than sense, but… I guess it's not your problem, is it?

- When Jerry started this thread, did anyone suspect it would get legs like Mira Sorvino?

[BloodRose]

What is this "I got married and sold all my guitars" sh1t????

Please, I don't mean to offend. You are far from the first person I have seen say that kind of thing, so I'm not singling you out.

But seriously.

I got married and I didn't sell a damn thing.

What is going on that +wife = -guitars for so many dudes? Did you trade them for her? (Did she come with a case?)

This boggles my mind

If you were having triplets or something and needed cash for the crazy medical bills, that's one thing...

First, my wife is VERY unsupportive of my music. to her, its all a pipe dream of my youth and we dont have the money for my Hobby..

Second, when we got married, she was young and had a dream of a soap opera life where she attended social functions and I made lots of money.. She missed the part where she met me where I worked a second job. Anyhow, we had kids right away an went very lean times.. I had to sell/pawn my gear to keep the power on or groceries.. I ended up selling nearly everything I had of worth. She came into the marriage with a suitcase of clothes..
So thats my story, Im sticking to it..

Read Formula's post.. Ditto.. When I was single, extra money went for beer or gear.. Rarely ever ate except at my PT job at a sub shop.. With family, you cant and Formula is EXPENSIVE!!

[dr. ad]

right, there's only one way to settle this: unarmed combat.

who wants to go first?

[misterwhizzy]

Aren't we all forgetting one important fact?

Whatever gets you playing your guitar is what you need.

Does the audience notice a difference between an Alnico 8 and a ceramic? Probably not the tone. Does the audience notice a difference between your treble at 4 and your treble at 6? Probably not in the tone.

But if the sound coming out of your equipment inspires you to play better or play more, that's what it's all about. I think we'll all end up chasing a better tone to some extent, but it's not necessarily just about how it sounds. It's about the fact that it's what we need to keep pumping out more music.

Not everyone needs a Gibson, but some do. I couldn't live in a small apartment by myself, but some people can. It costs me more money on a monthly basis to be happy, but I'm pretty happy. It's always an individual situation, and if $250 guitars make you happy, go for it. I'm with the low quantity, high quality crowd, but the music other players here make is much better than mine. To each his own.

[Jessie's ghost]

The physics of musical instruments don't care that the economy is currently deep-throating donkeys in the back alley. We have to make the best choice that we can for ourselves. You don't have to spend more money than you're comfortable with on a guitar, a pedal, a pick… anything.

A more expensive [whatever] might not be worth it to me, but I cannot say in absolute terms that the item simply is not worth it. The next guy might look at those $1,250 Seymour Duncan pickups and say, "Sure, I'll try 'em." He's probably played a lot more different pickups than I have. He's probably built pickups himself. And I'm pretty sure he makes more money than I do. None of this bothers me, any more than a guy who insists on Custom Shop Jacksons because he thinks the production models feel like junk. It's his money and his perception, and it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of what I have.

[dlc1953]

I for one am not about to assault someone's sanity because they want to spend XXXXXXXXXXXX dollars on a sexy lookin nice playin[to them] guitar . I like the idea of givin yourself what you want. All the other financial consideration's are ones personal choice. But I do think you can resonably arguee that the over-seas offering's of Gibson competitors are damm close in quality to there's. In the end it comes down to the individual buyers opinion.But over the last 2 years here and on other Forums there is a large body of Agile and other models, believers.I will definitely buy another.

[Khriss Bliss]

i can sum up my distrust of Gibson Les Pauls in three words:
"Gibson Les Paul"

"Gibson" as in the company rated one of the worst managed companies, which prices guitars at a price that makes a ticketscalper blush, and the scandals- hey, my JPage Sign. has a Chinese neck, or what do we do when we run out of legal mahogany? etc.

Im not saying there arent lots of fantastic Gibsons, there are, but they should be compared to... Chevrolet, or Disney.. not Ferrari ... well, to be more specific, more than half of whats wrong with the Gibson brand involves just the Les Paul!!
{ btw, let me add this is my first week of gettin over my allergy to them. i was listening to April Wine, and realized i used to love em, so get over it, maybe ill get another one...}

"Les Paul" as in genius gtr player/ inventor who contributed little more than his name, and gold paint to the thing.

oh, and its the guitar i ever owned that suckd, i. e. didnt stay in tune, had boomy lows, crappy hi end... yes it was from the 70s, ... i was a stupid kid i guess, cuz no one else had em in my neck of the woods, so the one got prob wuz a lemon.

thats no

[Jessie's ghost]

That's why I like Gibson. Stockholm Syndrome, you see.
I didn't like Lindsay Lohan until I saw the video of Brandon Davis making his filthy tirade against her, with Paris Hilton practically wetting herself from laughter in the background.
Wait. What were we talking about?

Edit: Please note that I'm not comparing you to Brandon Davis. He's a loathsome and detestable human being.