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Thread: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

  1. #61
    Ultimate Tone Slacker IanBallard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    You know, there is always the option of ignoring things you don't like. I dunno... maybe I'm crazy.

    To say Eddie Van Halen "relentlessly shreds" and "has no talent" is mind-boggling. I put him up there with Charlie Parker, Jaco Pastorius, Jimi Hendrix and even Mozart. All of them introverts, all of them battled with drugs and alcohol due to inability to cope with social situations (typical of talented artists) and all of them changed the face of music in their time and innovated their respected instruments. You either like Van Halen or not. But to say he has no talent is incredible.
    Last edited by IanBallard; 04-05-2011 at 08:03 AM.

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    Tone Member sumitagarwal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    EVH tone discussions are monopolizing this forum to the detriment of the overall community.

    I count about 7 of the 30 threads listed in the first page of the Pickup Lounge are EVH threads...

  3. #63
    Ultimate Tone Slacker IanBallard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by sumitagarwal View Post
    EVH tone discussions are monopolizing this forum to the detriment of the overall community.

    I count about 7 of the 30 threads listed in the first page of the Pickup Lounge are EVH threads...
    Could the "parody" threads be the ones to go? If people have legitimate questions about their favorite player (who has ties to the Seymour Duncan brand), who cares? If the mods/admins think it's out-of-hand, they'll do something. As I said, there's a little thing called "ignoring stuff that annoys you" that is a wonderful tool for dealing with life. I use it all the time.

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    Tone Member sumitagarwal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by IanBallard View Post
    As I said, there's a little thing called "ignoring stuff that annoys you" that is a wonderful tool for dealing with life. I use it all the time.
    But if we did that, would it still be the internet?

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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    So, do you think the first album used a:
    1] PAF/'59style mixed to make it sound heavier?
    2] Super Distortion/ Might Mite cermamic pup?
    3] PAF/'59 with a boost pedal?

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    Toneologist Martian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Who is EVH?

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    Super Toneologist GilmourD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martian View Post
    Who is EVH?

  8. #68
    Toneologist Martian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by GilmourD View Post
    Oh yea, he was David Lee Roth's and Sammy Hagar's guitar player for a while, right?

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    Super Toneologist GilmourD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroCool View Post
    So, do you think the first album used a:
    1] PAF/'59style mixed to make it sound heavier?
    2] Super Distortion/ Might Mite cermamic pup?
    3] PAF/'59 with a boost pedal?
    PAF, wax potted, and the Marshall with the Variac through Eddie's home-made L-pad attenuator into H&H 400 solid-state power amps into Eddie's basketweave Marshall cab loaded with Greenbacks.

    Most people really have no idea what the Variac is for and what it actually does. Sure, it drops the volume, but it also kills the clean headroom on the amp, if you set it to 90VAC like Eddie did (he lied about setting the voltage higher, because that would just make the amp CLEANER!).

    Dropping the plate voltage reduces the ability for the tubes to accurately amplify the sound without clipping. A higher plate voltage has the opposite effect.

    Now this not only affects the the 6CA7 power tubes he used (yes, he used US-design 6CA7s which were the US-made Tetrodes made to be the electrical equivalent of the British-made EL34 Pentodes that the Marshall was designed for) but also the 12AX7s in the preamp and even the phase inverter. This created a situation were it was distorted signal that was repeatedly redistorted because none of the tubes could cleanly reproduce the signal.

    However, since it wasn't a situation where Eddie was slamming the input gain stage like most people do (either through a hot pickup or a booster), it was a softer-sounding distortion without the buzziness usually associated with preamp distortion, but it was still saturated. Usually when you smack the snot out of the first gain stage, a good deal of the distortion happens there, and THAT is reproduced by the later gain stages without those stages introducing as much distortion, hence the buzziness.

    Honestly, I think you could reproduce Eddie's GUITAR sound with an Ash Strat with a Floyd, a very SLIGHTLY overwound PAF with mismatched coils, and any amp circuit based on the '59 Fender Bassman loaded with 6CA7s and the mains voltage dropped to 90VAC.

    However, you're still not going to reproduce his feel, as IanBallard has said a few times in this thread. This is why you can hand your buddy your guitar without touching a control and he'll sound completely different.

    Eddie has a unique pick attack (hell, look at how he holds his picks, not even using his index finger). He has very, very strong hands, but he also has a very relaxed grip on the guitar and a very fluid way of playing. Most people trying to cop Eddie's tone tend to grip the guitar like they're trying to kill it and play very stiffly, and this also translates to a slightly more brittle tone since they're smashing the strings into the frets in a way unlike Eddie.

    I think the biggest clue to copping Eddie's tone is found in his face. Just look at all the pictures of him playing. He's smiling. He's having fun. He's relaxed. He's not playing so hard that it looks like he's trying to push out a turd.

    Enjoy yourself while playing and you'll find yourself a bit closer to Eddie.

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    Ultimate Tone Member zakk_speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by GilmourD View Post

    I think the biggest clue to copping Eddie's tone is found in his face. Just look at all the pictures of him playing. He's smiling. He's having fun. He's relaxed. He's not playing so hard that it looks like he's trying to push out a turd.
    Brilliant - that could be a new sig quote

  11. #71
    Ultimate Tone Slacker IanBallard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Yep. Beyond his playing, the fact that he wrong every song in the VH collection, etc, what impacted me as a kid was his smile and the fact he was enjoying what he did. I think that, more than anything, should be the influence that people a driving for. Have fun! Love what you do and practice your ass off.

  12. #72
    Super Toneologist GilmourD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by IanBallard View Post
    Yep. Beyond his playing, the fact that he wrong every song in the VH collection, etc, what impacted me as a kid was his smile and the fact he was enjoying what he did. I think that, more than anything, should be the influence that people a driving for. Have fun! Love what you do and practice your ass off.
    I may not drink myself, but I find no harm in his practice regimen as a kid.

    Alex used to go out and party. Eddie would sit on the corner of his bed with a six-pack just practicing guitar when Alex left. When Alex got back, Eddie would be in the same exact spot with an empty six pack.

    Honestly, I want to build myself a Marshall clone with a power transformer that supplies the same B+ voltage to the tubes that a '68 1959 Superlead would've and drop in some 6CA7s. I bet it would be amazing.

    https://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits_60b.htm#6M100
    Last edited by GilmourD; 04-05-2011 at 09:37 AM.

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    Braindeadologist GoldenVulture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martian View Post
    Oh yea, he was David Lee Roth's and Sammy Hagar's KEYBOARD player for a while, right?
    Correction

    - http://www.myspace.com/mrdsbigband - 80's demos and things.
    - http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=804435 -

    Warning: May contain traces of NUTS

  14. #74
    Toneologist xntrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by IanBallard View Post
    Uhhh....





    It's true it's not his instrument of choice, but he'd mop the floor with 99.99999% of the folks on this forum with a ukulele.
    one of my favorite songs form the man who can't play acoustic, this has been on my "to learn" list for very long time but i have yet to get around to it...

  15. #75
    Ultimate Tone Slacker IanBallard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by xntrick View Post
    one of my favorite songs form the man who can't play acoustic, this has been on my "to learn" list for very long time but i have yet to get around to it...
    The irony of this song vs. the comment posted about his inability to play the acoustic, is that the electric part is pretty easy. It's the same G-flat pentatonic lick throughout, moved up to A-flat before the solos. It's the acoustic part that I can't get right. The solos are well... Ed solos. I can't play a single VH solo all the way through, but I love jamming to his riffs and I think his personal feeling is the music comes first, the solos are just a part of the song.

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    Mojo's Minions Ed Hunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by IanBallard View Post
    You know, there is always the option of ignoring things you don't like. I dunno... maybe I'm crazy.

    To say Eddie Van Halen "relentlessly shreds" and "has no talent" is mind-boggling. I put him up there with Charlie Parker, Jaco Pastorius, Jimi Hendrix and even Mozart. All of them introverts, all of them battled with drugs and alcohol due to inability to cope with social situations (typical of talented artists) and all of them changed the face of music in their time and innovated their respected instruments. You either like Van Halen or not. But to say he has no talent is incredible.
    yes i agree!

  17. #77
    Ultimate Tone Slacker IanBallard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    That 3-pup Wolfgang gives me major GAS! I wonder what single-buckers he had in there?

  18. #78
    Mojo's Minions Ed Hunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by IanBallard View Post
    That 3-pup Wolfgang gives me major GAS! I wonder what single-buckers he had in there?
    you could always start a thread and ask?

  19. #79
    Junior Member acedoors's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    ignoring people that say things that u do not like is a very challenging skill to acquire, but I do pretty good at it. Oh and i did not say VH was a relentless non talented shredder, i said the guy I know that wants to be Vh is.

  20. #80
    Junior Member acedoors's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?

    oh and zappa rules

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