APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

[Jazzfiend101]

Hi guys, I'm sure I'm the millionth dude to ask, "Hey what's the difference between the Alnico II Pro and the Alnico II Pro Slash Signature?", but I'm sort of curious if any of you guys who have owned both sets wouldn't happen to be able to shed some light on the difference between these two pups. I bought an APH 1 about a year ago and I stuck it into an Epi Les Paul Custom. I have been modding the balls out of this guitar for months, paycheck to paycheck, gibson tuners, tonepros AVR II bridge set, larger frets (my dad is a tech at a Guitarcenter, so I'm blessed to have some "free repairs" done) along with different pots installed. Lastly to change were the pickups. I first stuck a Pearly Gates in the bridge and I'll be stick that in every other humbucking guitar I'll ever get... for forever. It's a great bright sound, so I wanted a complement.

I'm big into classic rock, Aerosmith and stuff, so I had a friend recommend I try the APH 1. I knew from my own research that this was the same brand of pups Slash had in his LP copy in 1986. So I thought, well... Slash is pretty cool... and I knew off the bat that whether or not I bought a pickup that may or may not have been in his guitar, I certainly wouldn't ever sound like him... but the pup had to have been better than the stock Gibson Classic 57 copies they've been sticking in Epi's. It certainly was, right off the bat. I noticed that it had a much thicker sound to it than the 59 that I stuck in my other LP. This is the neck pup I'm talking about. The 59 is a great pup, but concerning the APH specifically, I noticed that it cleaned up greatly, while maintaining the girth in its sound. I also have noticed that when using my own amp, a Crate Vintage Club 50 tube combo (4 el84s) it can be difficult to work with this pup at times. I've noticed it's a darker sounding pickup. Concerning my own rig, it's a noticably darker tone, but it still maintains a good balance of its own special sound. It's great for playing blues, and with the tone knob rolled down it's got a beautiful woman tone.

I noticed the more and more I played on it, the similar it sounded to Slash's tone, and I thought... well... Slash is pretty cool.

Tell me about this Slash Signature pickup. Is it brighter than the APH 1? And if Slash actually had the Alnico II Pro from 1986 in his original setup, then are his signature pups really just a hipper version of what he originally had? Are the current APH 1's being sold similar to the ones in 1986, or are they just some completely different design changed over time? And if they are similar to the originals, then what's with the signature pickup? What else does it do?

I've seen that the numbers and measurements aren't identical to the two pickups, and upon scrutinizing the APH-1, APH-2, the Pearly Gates, and the SD59's, I notice they are all different and special in their own way. Concerning the Alnico II Pro sets (signature brand too) what makes these babies different from each other, and aside from, "Yeah dude it'll give you the Slash sound," what can I expect from a possible upgrade to a signature neck model? A brighter sound, hotter, warmer, darker? Having to choose between gas in the car or a better or similar pickup?

I appreciate any advice from you guys, as my curiousity cannot stay my wallet much longer. Keep rockin!!

[GuitarDoc]

From what I understand, the Slash is very similar to the Alnico 2 Pro but has a few more winds to give it a bit more output and upper mids.

Both are warmer than either the Pearly or the '59.

[LtKojak]

They're voiced differently, and the APH2s are a lot livelier!

In my case, I like the APH2s a lot, almost just as much as I disliked the APH1s.

Anyway, an A4 modded '59 set is where it's at for the description given, if you ask me...

HTH,

[dano8180]

Even though I had them both in the same guitar, it's hard for me to compare the two because when I dropped the Slashers in, I also replaced all the electronics and wired it 50's style which does affect the tone a bit. I will say I absolutely love the Slash set with the upgraded electronics in my Epi Slash Les Paul; it's actually one of the best sounding Lester's I've owned or played.

[Suchapinch]

I have an aph-2 set in one guitar (so bridge & neck) and a pearly gates neck in another with a CC bridge. I like the pearly gates neck much better then the aph-2 and from the descriptions and recordings that I've heard, would like the aph-1 even less. In fact, I like the pearly gates neck the way you like the bridge, it should go in every hb guitar I would ever own. I'm wondering why you didn't go for the pearly gates neck along with the bridge?

[Jazzfiend101]

Well, I'm a bit on a budget with just two Lesters, and I wanted to see what happens if I do this or that. While a guitarcenter discount on a $94 PG bridge comes to $59 total, I can't blow money on pups a lot. Another friend suggested the 59 for its clarity, so I had another Epi and stuck that in there. I'd like to stick a PG neck in... the neck, but I didn't want to pigeonhole my sound, or rather, can my guitar be more versatile with two different pups in it, so I stuck the AIIP in there.

but the Alnico II Pro is in my first Epi. So basically, researching the net I'm finding that more people prefer the Slash model over the regular. Is that hype? Or is it just a generally better pickup? I mean... just because it has a top hat on the box... And my question is... the guy hasn't always had a signature set of his own pups. So he's been using AH1's in his stage guitars... Now, I'm not exactly after the Slash sound, but I'm one of those, "Dammit, I'm gonna make it work," guitar guys. Any more advice?

[mwalluk]

I prefer the neck as is ala original, never liked the bridge. For bridge go screamin demon

[Suchapinch]

Sorry, I'm going to go on a rant here.
Back when the first Slash model Gibsons came out (before the Slash pickup), there was point made on Gibson's website that the APH-1 specced pickup was the pickup used for the guitar that Slash used to record with (Derrig Les Paul copy). They even went on to quote Seymour Duncan about how a Slash model pickup was attempted, but rejected by Slash stating that you couldn't improve on perfection (APH-1). I'm not making this up. You can imagine that all of these years, Slash has had access to any number of Custom shop Les Pauls, the "cream de la cream". They always claimed to use the APH-1. Seymour Duncan was determined to find a way to sell a Slash model pickup, so they came up with a new angle. The new claim is that none of those Custom shop Les Pauls (slash is reputed to have hundreds) Slash plays live with sounded as good as the COPY that Slash recorded with! (funny huh?). Has anyone ever read of Slash complaining about this? But, with the new Slash model pickup, Slash's and even your guitar will sound like blah blah blah. Problem solved, put a caricature of Slash on the back and charge $15 more each. Oh, the Slash Sig model comes with vintage appointments such as long legged base and non-splitable bradded wire, even though it's not exactly the same pickup! Double Oh, you can get it in reverse zebra or all black! Imagine, all black just like Slash.

Your question seems to be "is the difference it worth it?"

I'm glad that there's another pickup in the line to fine tune your tone, but you said that you like the way the APH-1 sounds and that you think Slash is cool. You also said that you're on a limited budget. Think of the APH-1's tone as a pretty shade of blue. The question is, do you want to spend your money on another pickup (premium priced) that's a slightly different shade of blue or maybe something red or yellow. It's your money, but if it was me, I'd try something else if anything at all.

Wow, that was preachy huh?

[Jazzfiend101]

Nah bro, I like discussions, and that really helps out a lot. I think that cleared a lot up for me. I may go and stick something else just to stick it in there. I may stick a PG in the neck just to see if the two go well with one another. I've always been big on lower output pups, and the APH-1 is pretty low, but maybe a bit more clarity is needed. After all, you can only raise that pickup so high before... you know... it's too high.

[mwalluk]

Nah bro, I like discussions, and that really helps out a lot. I think that cleared a lot up for me. I may go and stick something else just to stick it in there. I may stick a PG in the neck just to see if the two go well with one another. I've always been big on lower output pups, and the APH-1 is pretty low, but maybe a bit more clarity is needed. After all, you can only raise that pickup so high before... you know... it's too high.

I recommend sticking with the a2p. It's the cleanest neck pickup out for cleans. Now if you play semi clean with a lip bIt of gain bite go pg.

I have a pg in my lp. It's great but doesn't clean up as good as the a2p. I need clean so for my other guitar I bought an a2p. Pg is great for edge of break up to full out gAin. Not so much for crystal clear clean

[GuitarDoc]

I find the PG very clean in the neck of my LP. One of my most favorite neck pups.

But my favorite is the Screamin Demon. It's more even toned with smoother highs and very articulate. I also love this pup in the bridge. The SD makes a GREAT set. Don't let the 10k fool you, it performs just like any PAF pup

[mwalluk]

I find the PG very clean in the neck of my LP. One of my most favorite neck pups.

But my favorite is the Screamin Demon. It's more even toned with smoother highs and very articulate. I also love this pup in the bridge. The SD makes a GREAT set. Don't let the 10k fool you, it performs just like any PAF pup

DOn't get me wrong the PG cleans up well, for my taste the A2P cleans up better.

Agree +1000000000 on the SD. It's an awesome bridge pickup.

[LtKojak]

Sorry, I'm going to go on a rant here.
Back when the first Slash model Gibsons came out (before the Slash pickup), there was point made on Gibson's website that the APH-1 specced pickup was the pickup used for the guitar that Slash used to record with (Derrig Les Paul copy). They even went on to quote Seymour Duncan about how a Slash model pickup was attempted, but rejected by Slash stating that you couldn't improve on perfection (APH-1). I'm not making this up. You can imagine that all of these years, Slash has had access to any number of Custom shop Les Pauls, the "cream de la cream". They always claimed to use the APH-1. Seymour Duncan was determined to find a way to sell a Slash model pickup, so they came up with a new angle. The new claim is that none of those Custom shop Les Pauls (slash is reputed to have hundreds) Slash plays live with sounded as good as the COPY that Slash recorded with! (funny huh?). Has anyone ever read of Slash complaining about this? But, with the new Slash model pickup, Slash's and even your guitar will sound like blah blah blah. Problem solved, put a caricature of Slash on the back and charge $15 more each. Oh, the Slash Sig model comes with vintage appointments such as long legged base and non-splitable bradded wire, even though it's not exactly the same pickup! Double Oh, you can get it in reverse zebra or all black! Imagine, all black just like Slash.

Your question seems to be "is the difference it worth it?"

I'm glad that there's another pickup in the line to fine tune your tone, but you said that you like the way the APH-1 sounds and that you think Slash is cool. You also said that you're on a limited budget. Think of the APH-1's tone as a pretty shade of blue. The question is, do you want to spend your money on another pickup (premium priced) that's a slightly different shade of blue or maybe something red or yellow. It's your money, but if it was me, I'd try something else if anything at all.

Wow, that was preachy huh?

This rant only tells that you haven't tried neither set.

[Bludave]

I have had many guitars with the A II's. It is one of my all time favorite pickups. IMHO it is the closest to a real Paf as I have heard(even though many will say the 59's are). I personally love the AII's. I have a set of the Slash signature pickups in my Les Paul; A Gibson Standard. It has made me fall in love with my Les Paul all over again. I have said this before in other threads... I am not really a huge Les Paul guy. I prefer a 335, SG or Strats, but since I have put the AII slash pickups in my Les Paul I have not been able to put this guitar down. It gives me wonderful tones crisp in the highs plenty of bottom and most importantly a lot of clarity. For me they work beautifully.



You have to admit there is something very sexy about an all black guitar!

[Suchapinch]

This rant only tells that you haven't tried neither set.

That's all you get from it? You don't see the irony in any of that? What difference would it have made if I didn't have a set?

I do, in fact have the slash set in a guitar. I didn't have the aph-1 first and thought that the eq of the aph-2 looked better for the guitar.

The rant was about the marketing frenzy that's been going on by a few guitar companies to get Slash's name on anything they can, to the point that this poor guy was almost confused enough to spent his limited budget on this.

[AlexR]

You seem to have a cynical outlook on this. Most people seem to think that the Slash set was developed to try and get all of Slash's other Les Pauls to sound as good as his original Derrig guitar. But you seem to have some source of info that no-one else is privy to.

Do you know Slash?
Were you in the room when the pickup was being designed and can report on conversations we weren't privy to?

Maybe Slash has finally sobered up enough to realise that the A2pro in a production LP could do with some tweaks. Maybe he's just changed his mind.
From SD's perspective he already had every Slash wannabe buying the regular A2pro, there's no gain to be had. Now he's probably reduced the demand for A2pro to super low levels due to the introduction of the Slash sig.

[Suchapinch]

You seem to have a cynical outlook on this. Most people seem to think that the Slash set was developed to try and get all of Slash's other Les Pauls to sound as good as his original Derrig guitar. But you seem to have some source of info that no-one else is privy to.

Do you know Slash?
Were you in the room when the pickup was being designed and can report on conversations we weren't privy to?

Maybe Slash has finally sobered up enough to realise that the A2pro in a production LP could do with some tweaks. Maybe he's just changed his mind.
From SD's perspective he already had every Slash wannabe buying the regular A2pro, there's no gain to be had. Now he's probably reduced the demand for A2pro to super low levels due to the introduction of the Slash sig.

Cynical, of course. You should be cynical of anyone asking for your money. I buy Seymour Duncan pickups, first based on people's opinions that I trust and afterward because they proved to be consistent, high quality and have good customer service. I trust them. However this Slash pickup thing has my trust wavering. If you read all of my "rant" and don't feel like someone's trying to pull a fast one on you, then you are very trusting indeed.

No gain to be had? $15 up charge per pickup looks like a gain to me. You must have missed that part.

"Most people seem to think that the Slash set was developed to try and get all of Slash's other Les Pauls to sound as good as his original Derrig guitar. "
Most people SEEM to think this, as you say, because that's what they've been told.

Do I know Slash? That's a silly question. Nope and I didn't even know he was a drunk until you told me.

[LtKojak]

Cynical, of course. You should be cynical of anyone asking for your money. I buy Seymour Duncan pickups, first based on people's opinions that I trust and afterward because they proved to be consistent, high quality and have good customer service. I trust them. However this Slash pickup thing has my trust wavering. If you read all of my "rant" and don't feel like someone's trying to pull a fast one on you, then you are very trusting indeed.

No gain to be had? $15 up charge per pickup looks like a gain to me. You must have missed that part.

"Most people seem to think that the Slash set was developed to try and get all of Slash's other Les Pauls to sound as good as his original Derrig guitar. "
Most people SEEM to think this, as you say, because that's what they've been told.

Do I know Slash? That's a silly question. Nope and I didn't even know he was a drunk until you told me.

Your distrust 'bout the Slash set have no justification. If you can't hear the difference between the Slash set and other set can only be the following things:

1. your rig is not good enough
2. your ears are not good enough.
3. your playing is not good enough
4. a combination of all of the above

But I trust more my instinct telling me you lie 'bout having'em.

So there!

[Suchapinch]

Your distrust 'bout the Slash set have no justification. If you can't hear the difference between the Slash set and other set can only be the following things:

1. your rig is not good enough
2. your ears are not good enough.
3. your playing is not good enough
4. a combination of all of the above

But I trust more my instinct telling me you lie 'bout having'em.

So there!

When did I say that I couldn't hear the difference? I'm guessing that english isn't your mother tongue and I applaud anyone who is multilingual, but you really need to work on your comprehension. And yes, indeed I have a set. And no, I'm not going to pull them out and photograph them for your satisfaction. Calling me a lier huh? Name calling shows weakness in a debate.

[frankfalbo]

Cynical, of course. You should be cynical of anyone asking for your money. I buy Seymour Duncan pickups, first based on people's opinions that I trust and afterward because they proved to be consistent, high quality and have good customer service. I trust them. However this Slash pickup thing has my trust wavering. If you read all of my "rant" and don't feel like someone's trying to pull a fast one on you, then you are very trusting indeed.

No gain to be had? $15 up charge per pickup looks like a gain to me. You must have missed that part.

"Most people seem to think that the Slash set was developed to try and get all of Slash's other Les Pauls to sound as good as his original Derrig guitar. "
Most people SEEM to think this, as you say, because that's what they've been told.

I'm sorry this world has hardened you to this point. Everything we've said about the Slash pickup and it's development quite simply is true. Seymour Duncan does not "pull a fast one" on anyone. It's not in our culture. While AlexR is just speculating, some of what he's saying is much closer to the truth than anything you're fearing. I shouldn't have to ever respond to a suggestion that we are motivated by monetary gain at the expense of our customers' trust or money. And yet I will: Your fears are not justified. That is not how we make decisions. The Slash pickup uses a different wire and wind, a maple spacer, a long legged bottom plate, and single conductor wire. Yes a very small part of the cost difference is because any use of a celebrity name simply MUST be accompanied by an agreement or else the celebrity can diminish their rights to protest the use of their name in other situations. But it is not the real reason the pickup costs more. It also costs more to make.

It is very rare I will entertain discussions of this nature but this discussion has been structured in such a way that this is probably the only way to put it to rest. But I really shouldn't be discussing artist relations or details of this nature. If it cuts through cynicism then maybe it's worth it.

We get the occasional cynic on the YJM and Slash pickups, but I was here for the development of both and I can say that everything we put into print is exactly as it happened. No more really needs to be said.