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Thread: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfalbo View Post
    I'm sorry this world has hardened you to this point. Everything we've said about the Slash pickup and it's development quite simply is true. Seymour Duncan does not "pull a fast one" on anyone. It's not in our culture. While AlexR is just speculating, some of what he's saying is much closer to the truth than anything you're fearing. I shouldn't have to ever respond to a suggestion that we are motivated by monetary gain at the expense of our customers' trust or money. And yet I will: Your fears are not justified. That is not how we make decisions. The Slash pickup uses a different wire and wind, a maple spacer, a long legged bottom plate, and single conductor wire. Yes a very small part of the cost difference is because any use of a celebrity name simply MUST be accompanied by an agreement or else the celebrity can diminish their rights to protest the use of their name in other situations. But it is not the real reason the pickup costs more. It also costs more to make.

    It is very rare I will entertain discussions of this nature but this discussion has been structured in such a way that this is probably the only way to put it to rest. But I really shouldn't be discussing artist relations or details of this nature. If it cuts through cynicism then maybe it's worth it.

    We get the occasional cynic on the YJM and Slash pickups, but I was here for the development of both and I can say that everything we put into print is exactly as it happened. No more really needs to be said.
    Hey man, very cool for you to respond and thanks for stepping in. I assure that I'm not any more "hardened" by this world than your average adult. And given the history of the guitar/pickups involved you would have to admit my skepticism was not completely unfounded. And I have to tell you that not only do I use Seymour Duncan pickups, but have turned on many of my guitar playing colleagues as well. I am the gear researcher of the group and for every one of your pickups I buy, you sell at least triple that to my friends, on my recommendation. That said, I was feeling uncomfortable about what I was reading.
    I sincerely accept that you were there for the development. There are a couple of questions that I'd like to know the guitars used in the development and such, not out of skepticism, but because it would be fascinating.

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    Mojo's Minions frankfalbo's Avatar
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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    Cool man. The "guitars used" question is a fun story for me to tell. I'll try to be brief. We have a Slash gold top guitar here. I recorded the A2Pros into a Marshall mic'd with my old Shure 545SD, one of my favorite "rawk" guitar cab mics. The stock A2Pro's were the reference, followed by 5 or 6 variations MJ wound, based on our full understanding of Slash's Derrig vs. new guitars. (we do this a LOT for artists, more than you'd think) We sent the files to Slash. He identified two as contenders.

    Then we met him at the studio, where I played the Derrig as well as the others. I installed the first of two, it was great. Then the second of two, which was magic enough for Slash to say that's it. We did it. I think he even leaked a tweet about it, not for some marketing tease, just because he was happy about it. We were like "uh oh" especially because he said something about them being like the old ones. But really what's like the old ones is the long legged bottom plate, maple spacer & single conductor. The wind and wire are different. So the guitars used included the Derrig and other Slash Les Pauls and Slash's other Les Pauls, as well as an Appetite replica prototype they had sent him.

    While there I noticed an old 545SD mic and asked his tech about it. He said "yeah we record all the guitar tracks with that" and I told him I would use that any time someone gave me a hard time about that old mic! (is it good enough for Slash?)

    After that, it wasn't cut and dried, he didn't formally "accept" the pickup until he spent a lot of time with it live and in the studio. The Derrig really is a special guitar. I like to think with the Appetite replica Gibson got us most of the way there and we closed the gap.

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    Alnico 6/8 gibson175's Avatar
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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suchapinch View Post
    Hey man, very cool for you to respond and thanks for stepping in. I assure that I'm not any more "hardened" by this world than your average adult. And given the history of the guitar/pickups involved you would have to admit my skepticism was not completely unfounded. And I have to tell you that not only do I use Seymour Duncan pickups, but have turned on many of my guitar playing colleagues as well. I am the gear researcher of the group and for every one of your pickups I buy, you sell at least triple that to my friends, on my recommendation. That said, I was feeling uncomfortable about what I was reading.
    I sincerely accept that you were there for the development. There are a couple of questions that I'd like to know the guitars used in the development and such, not out of skepticism, but because it would be fascinating.
    how about "sorry i was wrong to make assumptions and go mouthing off about Seymour Duncan's ethics in the Seymour Duncan forum"?
    Last edited by gibson175; 09-23-2011 at 08:15 PM.

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    Alnico 6/8 gibson175's Avatar
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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    while we are here tho....i have not really considered APH's before for my 335....i have 59s in there, and while i like the big bass, i find im rolling off the treble a lot. What i like is fat and warm. The guitar in question came stock with the terrible gibson 57s. Not enough bass and not enough treble. So i put in 59s - much better! Plenty of bass but i could stand to have smoother tops and more mids now (i know, i know im pedantic). I genrally use a clean sound thru fender amps. I dont want cutting like the PG, and i definitely dont want unpotted....so would APHs give me more smooth and fat than 59s or would i lose all that big bottom end? Anyone care to chime in? I know Kojak and BM you are gonna tell me to do a mag swap....but feel free to do so, just as long as you compare the aph to the 59 set while you are doing it! lol
    Last edited by gibson175; 09-23-2011 at 08:25 PM.

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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by gibson175 View Post
    how about "sorry i was wrong to make assumptions and go mouthing off about Seymour Duncan's ethics in the Seymour Duncan forum"?
    Because when I said "cool" and Frank said "cool", it was cool

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    Mojo's Minions frankfalbo's Avatar
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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    I'm not worried about an apology, the rest of you guys don't have to be either. As for expressing his concerns here, I'd rather it be here than anywhere else. We're more likely to see it and able to respond, which is also why we don't support bashing our competitors here.

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    Mojo's Minions LtKojak's Avatar
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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suchapinch View Post
    Calling me a lier huh? Name calling shows weakness in a debate.
    It was out of pity, just for not calling you deaf, dumb and incompetent.

    I see it as a matter of fact.

    Plus, you're not man enough to admit your own error and say "I stand corrected".

    On a last note, just to heighten your obvious lacking of culture, although knowing in advance it'll probably be an exercise in futility, here's a quote that should make you think BEFORE you pursue on assumptions without any substantial body of proof:

    "There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."
    - Donald Rumsfeld
    Have a nice life, pal.
    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
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    Mojo's Minions GuitarDoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    hey 175, if you want smoother highs out of that '59 you've gotta try putting in an A8.

    (I guess since I'm not Kojak or BM I don't have to compare the APH to the '59 set).
    Originally Posted by IanBallard
    Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

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    Alnico 6/8 gibson175's Avatar
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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    hey 175, if you want smoother highs out of that '59 you've gotta try putting in an A8.

    (I guess since I'm not Kojak or BM I don't have to compare the APH to the '59 set).
    dirty cheater! and an UOA5 in the neck? im too lazy.

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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    Very interesting stuff, but now I'm even more curious about the APH-1; how come the A2P has a boosted output over the APH-1? My gut is telling me, "because it brightens up the tone of any other instrument that isn't the Derrig copy," but I'm sure I'm missing something in there.

    Oh, and I do want to be clear here, I'm not really trying to copy Slash's sound, rather I don't want HIS sound coming out of my amp, believe it or not. He's got cool mojo, but I'd rather have my sound coming out of my amp... although my sound is stuck somewhere in that sound of 70s/80s classic rock from before I was born, and seeing that Slash is a favorite guitar player of mine, I wouldn't mind having just an ounce of his mojo in my own rig, because after all... even if I could afford to get all the signature gear, I wouldn't sound like him, I don't think.

    But back to the aforementioned, if Mr. Frank would be so kind, I'm very interested in the science between the two different sets of pickups. Also, I am a bit curious to ask; did the Slash A2P kill the APH-1 sales? I wouldn't know where to find that, and I'm always interested in sales of music gear. It's cool to see what people buy.

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    Mojo's Minions LtKojak's Avatar
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    Default Re: APH-1 vs. APH-2 Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzfiend101 View Post
    I'm very interested in the science between the two different sets of pickups.
    You only need to re-read Frank's entries in this very thread. All you need to know is already explained.

    If you want specific TPL, coil geometry and such, it's proprietary information that nobody at the SD Co. is at liberty to divulge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzfiend101 View Post
    Also, I am a bit curious to ask; did the Slash A2P kill the APH-1 sales?
    At least in my neck of woods, not at all.
    Last edited by LtKojak; 11-06-2011 at 12:20 AM.
    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
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