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Thread: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

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    Toneologist BachToRock's Avatar
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    Default HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    NEW PICTURES & MORE DETAILED INSTRUCTIONS ADDED 12/12/11... see post #128 for additional details...
    OK... anyone who has tried it knows that the ultimate Vinage PAF on steriods is the ALNICO 59/CUSTOM HYBRID... it combines the Vintage Clarity and Response of the 59 Model with the Strength and Drive of the Custom.
    It is fabricated from a 59 Model coil and a Custom coil with your Alnico magnet of choice... it measures out about 11.5k and balances perfectly with traditional vintage type neck humbuckers like the 59, Jazz, Seth Lover, Pearly Gates and Alnico Pro II.

    The tradeoff when you overwind a PAF style 42 guage wire pickup(59 Model, Seth, EVH, etc.) is that it starts getting congested and garbled sounding above about 9k... which happens to be right where the excellent Custom Shop EVH/78 Model is... if you wanted some more beef to your tone the next step was one of the 43 gauge Custom models (which all use the EXACT same coils) wound to just above 14k which is the optimum range for tone with that wire...
    The comprimise is that you lose the articulation and dynamic response of the PAF and start to suffer from compression due to the signal travelling through a thinner and greater length of wire, but it is an EXCELLENT tone none the less!

    With the Hybrid you get a Meritage of the 2 pickups... the BEST OF BOTH WORLDS... also, each coil has a different resonant peak so the combination is less "peaky" or "one notey" than a standard humbucker. The mismatched coils also cancel less harmonics so the tone is more complex and possesses some qualities unique to single coil pickups. The original vintage PAF's had coil mismatches since they were generally wound by sight or "until they were full" and not to the specified number of turns or resistance... that is one of the many reasons they sound so great.

    For the complete Hybrid experience you will need a killer NECK pickup... the 59N/JazzN Hybrid... the new pictures are of this pickup!
    Seymour has blessed us with a variety of pickup flavors... many can combined to make great Hybrids... read through the posts and see the variations!

    STEP 1 - Get your pickups prepared for surgery by removing the tape surrounding the coils. A braided 2 conductor pickup(pictured on the left) has the screw coil start lead wire soldered to the baseplate and the finish wire is soldered to the stud coils finish wire(white on a 4-conductor)


    STEP 2 - Very carefully remove the tape and De-solder the leads from the STUD coils only

    STEP 3 - Remove the little brass screws from the bottom of the coils and remove the coils to be exchanged


    STEP 4 - Install the swapped coils on each pickup... lightly tighten the brass screws on bottom plate to secure the bobbins... Re-solder the and tape the lead wires to prevent shorting out.


    STEP 5 - Heat the whole pickup with a hairdryer to reset the potting wax... press everything together tightly and then tighten the screws on the bottom snug to secure the whole assembly... After it cools down, apply fresh tape around the bobbins and install your new pickup!
    Last edited by BachToRock; 04-18-2012 at 10:08 PM.
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    Banned big_black's Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    Is there any difference in sound between the two?

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    Toneologist BachToRock's Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    The main difference is if you wire up a split switch... I prefer the Custom Coil as the split coil... it's around 7.2k which is really nice.
    Just my opinion though, you might like the 59 coil when split...
    That said... it will be Brighter when in split mode if you use the Custom screw/59 slug...
    Last edited by BachToRock; 06-24-2006 at 08:42 AM.
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    Mojo's Minions Fusion1's Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    Thanks Bach! I am glad to see the detailed pictures. I think I will get my soldering iron ready.

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    Toneologist BachToRock's Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    The problem when you overwind a PAF style 42 guage wire pickup(59 Model, Seth, EVH, etc.) is that it starts getting garbled sounding above about 9k just as MJ has informed you...

    To achieve a more beefy tone and retain clarity, you need to step to a thinner wire and wind more turns... ala the Custom models which use 43 guage wire coils wound to just above 14k which is the optimal range for tone with that wire...

    The next step is the JB & Distortion which are wound up to about 16-17k with 44 gauge wire which is the optimal range for THAT wire.

    Each wire has its "sweet spot" for tone and response and they all end up with about the same size coil... each wire also produces a unique set of harmonics

    The comprimise when producing a "hot" pickup is that you lose some of the articulation and dynamic response of the PAF and start to suffer from compression due to the signal travelling through a greater length of thinner wire. There are benefits and comprimises with each unique design.

    With the Hybrid you get a blend of the different gauge wires qualities... also, each coil has a different resonant peak so the combination is less "peaky" or "one notey" than a standard humbucker. The mis-matched coils also cancel less harmonics so the tone is more complex and posseses some qualities exclusive to single coil pickups.

    The coils are actually not very mis-matched since they have roughly the same amount of copper on the coil... you can't just use the resistance reading as a balance indicator
    The difference in resistance readings is because a 59 coil is wound with 42 gauge wire and a Custom coil is wound with 43 gauge wire which is thinner and electronically more resistive, add the additional turns it takes to fill the coil and your resistance reading is going to be a lot higher than a 42 gauge coil... the key factor is that they have about the same amount of copper on the coil which is what reacts to produce sound when the magnetic field is stimulated by the vibration of the strings.

    An example of a widely mis-matched humbucker is the FRALIN UN-BUCKER which has coils of the SAME gauge wire wound pretty far apart... the resistance measurement may only be 1k or so, but that is with 42 gauge wire which will produce 2 coils with a big difference in the amount of actual copper... I tried one of those and did not like it at all... the resonant peak produced by that 3.5k 42 gauge coil was shrill sounding to my ears.

    I hope I have explained this in understandable terminology...

    There is a consistant misunderstanding on the forum of how pickups work... ESPECIALLY in regards to resistance measurements... different gauge wires produce a different responses, harmonics and tone... that is why there are different models made with 42 gauge(59 Model, JAZZ, APII, etc), 43 gauge(Custom) and 44 gauge(JB,Distortion, etc...)
    Seymour has nailed the optimal winds for wire each of the standard gauge & type and that is why his pickups are generally regarded as the best... the majority of all the different models available are just variations of magnet type/size, coverd/uncoverd, potted/un-potted and different polepieces.

    Hybrids made using Duncan coils are the best pickups I have ever heard...
    The finest Bridge pickup being the Alnico 59/Custom Hybrid... the JB/Custom is also very cool for more modern tone...
    The Neck pickup of choice is the 59/Jazz Hybrid...
    DiMarzio has patents on this type of design so you will not be seeing them in the Duncan lineup anytime soon.
    Last edited by BachToRock; 06-07-2011 at 08:43 AM.
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    Hey BachToRock, which magnet are you using for these hybrids, A2 or A5?

    Ryan
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    If I go to the user group day in April, I may see about making this my 'pickup to wind.'
    Compared to the C-5, would you say it's a tad more vintage. How do the mids differ from the 59 and C-5?
    If you play guitar chest-high, you play from your heart.

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    Toneologist BachToRock's Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by rspst14
    Hey BachToRock, which magnet are you using for these hybrids, A2 or A5?

    Ryan
    That depends on the particular guitar how aggressive the desired tone is... it is really a way of fine tuning the pickups... just like the Custom Custom and Custom 5
    The A2 has the softer response with more midrange presence... the A5 has stronger and tighter lows combined with a more defined and direct treble
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    Mojo's Minions Fusion1's Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    Bachtorock, I am still confused as to what the 4 conductor wires get soldered to. The black and white of each coil get soldered to opposite colors of each other but what about the 4 conductor wire?

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    HeadBanginologist \m/(00)\m/'s Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    i definitely gotta try that someday!!!

  11. #11
    TheArchitect
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by Gearjoneser
    If I go to the user group day in April, I may see about making this my 'pickup to wind.'
    Compared to the C-5, would you say it's a tad more vintage. How do the mids differ from the 59 and C-5?
    I would say yea to being a tad more vintage. Generally speaking they have a bit more mid w/ the A2 having more than the A5 of course.

  12. #12
    theodie
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by Boleslaw Gers 666
    Why doesn't Seymour make these? Could the custom shop do it? Anyone tried any other hybrids?
    If I remember right, Dimarzio has the patent on mismatched coils or something like that.

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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    I asked this question before, Wouldn't spin a split accomplish the same thing?

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    Toneologist twoheadedboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    somebody feel like selling one of these hybrids? I'm VERY interested.

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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    Have you ever thought of doing this mod, kinda like John Spina does with pedals?
    I wish you could make up a small batch of these and sell them for a slight profit?
    Good idea? Bad idea?
    Last edited by Gearjoneser; 01-24-2007 at 01:10 PM.
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    I got to step 3 and now I am at a stand still. the 59 is a braided wire and the CUstom is a 4 conductor. I took notes.

    The 4 conductor Custom:

    Slug Coil: white wire goes to the white wire of the 4 conductor wiring, black wire goes to black wire of the 4 conductor wiring.

    Screw Coil: white wire goes to the red wire of the 4 conductor wiring, black wire goes to the green wire of the 4 conductor wiring.

    The above wiring is when you have 2 - 4 conductor pickups.

    The 2 conductor 59:

    both coils have 2 black wires each, so I am confused which goies to where and how the braided cable comes into play. I know one coil goes has a wire going to ground, and the other coil has one wire going to the braided cable hot output.

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    Mojo's Minions Fusion1's Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    help bump. I have 2 patients on the operating table for open heart surgery, and I'm running out of time... well actually the patients are...
    Last edited by Fusion1; 02-08-2005 at 05:40 AM.

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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    In addition I was trying to use both screw coils in one pickup as well as 2 slug coils for the other, will that also be a problem with phase issues?

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    Toneologist BachToRock's Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion1
    I got to step 3 and now I am at a stand still. the 59 is a braided wire and the CUstom is a 4 conductor. I took notes.

    The 4 conductor Custom:

    Slug Coil: white wire goes to the white wire of the 4 conductor wiring, black wire goes to black wire of the 4 conductor wiring.

    Screw Coil: white wire goes to the red wire of the 4 conductor wiring, black wire goes to the green wire of the 4 conductor wiring.

    The above wiring is when you have 2 - 4 conductor pickups.

    The 2 conductor 59:

    both coils have 2 black wires each, so I am confused which goies to where and how the braided cable comes into play. I know one coil goes has a wire going to ground, and the other coil has one wire going to the braided cable hot output.
    When you are looking at a 59 coil the Black wire to the left is like the White wire on the left of a Custom coil... the Black wire coming out of the bottom is like the Black one on the right of a custom coil.
    You can do 2 slug and/or 2 screw coil pickups!
    Here is a double slug example:

    Here is a double screw example:
    Last edited by BachToRock; 02-08-2005 at 07:12 AM.
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    Toneologist BachToRock's Avatar
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    Default Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

    Quote Originally Posted by SINGTONE
    I asked this question before, Wouldn't spin a split accomplish the same thing?
    Absolutely not.
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