Invader/DD/500T oversized/triple mag swaps (pics)

[King IzzO)))]

So, we've discussed doing this before, and I can see people not understanding what I'm talking about without visuals, so I took pics of my A8 Invader mag swap.

Invaders, Dirty Fingers', and 500T's have 3 oversized magnets in them. Duncan Distortions and a whole bunch of different Dimarzios have 1 oversized ceramic. You can replace the 3 with one (or vice-versa if you have a triple mag set). I'm replacing the 3 mags with a normal sized A8.

Here's the material I used for a spacer to place under the magnet. It's just fiberboard (like MDF) in the same thickness as a normal magnet. I just used the magnet as a template and cut it out with an exacto.


Here's the 3 magnets, the two smaller ones go outside of the pole screws, N-S orientation is the same for all 3 (same for 500T). In a newer DD the spacers are plastic, same size as these magnets.


Pickup put back together, I just used some wooden spacers from a dismantled pickup. You can see the vertical orientation, as opposed to flat, as they'd be in a pickup with a normal sized magnet or normal pole screws (in the Invader I have to use a spacer because the pole screws do not penetrate the baseplate).


In a DD you can just put the pickup back together like any other pickup and it will be fine... if you have the shorter spacers. If you've got the big plastic spacers you'll have to make some short ones or pirate them from another pickup.

The fiberboard spacer underneath the magnet looks darker in color because I have used it for this purpose before and it's been in the wax pot before, so it has soaked up some wax.

Notice my plastic tape reel for storing the original fiber tape for reuse. If you're careful taking it off you can reuse it 90% of the time, and it doesn't look like a hacked pickup.



Here it is all taped back up and ready to install, looks as good as when I pulled it out of the box yesterday.

[gvis]

Very interested to know the difference it brings. I've never swapped mags before, so thanks for the pics!

[formula73]

Fantastic writeup! I've only ever done one mag swap, so it's good to know how the more complex ones go. How about mag orientation? I've only done a Custom, so I don't know the outer mag orientation to the middle.

Edit: this should be a sticky.

[WGTP]

Nice work. Looks like there are several options just using the stock magnets. Removing the outside ones, the inside one, or a single outside one would sort of make it into a hybrid.

[Varg]

Cool thread, Im interested to hear how it sounds.

[dr. ad]

[GuitarDoc]

Great job.

So how does the Invader sound now with the A8 as compaired to with the three ceramics before the swap?

[DrNewcenstein]

Fantastic writeup! I've only ever done one mag swap, so it's good to know how the more complex ones go. How about mag orientation? I've only done a Custom, so I don't know the outer mag orientation to the middle.

Edit: this should be a sticky.

In between the first 2 pics he does say polar orientation is the same for all 3.

[King IzzO)))]

Yep, all three mags have the same orientation.

What I'm trying to accomplish with this pickup is a better A8 detonator, which is one of my all time faves. It's installed, wiring it up tonight.

[formula73]

Oops. Thanks. I'm looking forward to the tone report!

[Soulcrusher_X]

What would some regular fillister screws or smaller hex screws do for the tone? Do those big Hex screws make the tone fatter?

[GuitarDoc]

Hey King,
Got some results yet? I'm really curious what you like and don't like about that mag swap on the Detonator.

[King IzzO)))]

So, it's been a year or so since I let the Deto I had go with a guitar I traded away. I've since been through a bunch of pickups and just recently realized that I wasn't finding anything better than that lowly Deto with the A8 mag.

This sounds just like I remember the Deto A8.

Compared to the stock Invader it's way less fuzzy, warmer, and less stiff, with way better dynamics (soft/hard picking). The big crunch is still there, but down lower... massive low mid crunch, I guess. Huuuuuuuge thump on the palm mutes with a trailing growl that I can't get over, but it's NOT muddy. Notes go into overtone pretty quickly, overtones are epic, if you've ever listened to Converge's Jane Doe, it does that. Very cool. It is dark, a smidge darker than the El Diablo (ran them back to back for comparison in similar guitars), but it has some of the JB8 rawwr-rawwwr high mid thing going on, so it will cut through just fine, and giving the presence knob a little bump is no big deal. It has good bit more thump than the Diablo.

It's plenty tight enough for the stuff I do, but it's not sugical by any means, so I don't think this is really for djenty or whatever dudes. I can cop Nostromo/Knut/Meshuggah pretty well on it though.

Yes, pinch squealeez are teh awesomez.

I'm guesstimating the resonant peak is gonna be somewhere around 4-4.5, based on experience with where other Duncans are listed, and the EQ is something like 8/8/5 on the Duncan scale. It sounds like a warmer, less stiff Super3 through an EQ pedal pushing the bottom end up, or similar to a ceramic BK Warpig, which is probably why I fell in love with it in the first place. EQ matches up really well with the Liquifire in the neck.

Cleans are very nice up high, down low they're a little boomy (I am using a 60 tuned C# though), not stiff like a DD, Invader, Super3 etc, much prettier.

Leads are stupid awesome, almost neck pickup-like, thick but articulate. Switching back and forth to the Liquifire is real cool, these two pickups are almost made for each other in my opinion (I need to try a Crunchlab to see what DMZ thinks matches the Liquifire).

I think my original comparison of the Deto A8 was that it's a natural souding version of playing an EMG85 through an HM-2 set for chainsaw... I'll stick by that. This is a full on metal/sludge/doom pickup, not something I think would work for classic rock players, although it might be really cool for jazz. And I wouldn't put one in a LP. In a bright guitar (I'll bet it's awesome in a maple/ebony board super strat), or something lacking low end (like an SG, duh) it's the business, for the metal I play.

[Soulcrusher_X]

What if you took the giant lug-nut bolts out and put in some small hexes or filisters?

[Franknfilms]

Thanks for posting this. You are THE resource for dealing with different types of magnet swaps, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with questions when I try to make a deto8 in the future.

As for soulcrusher's question, I don't think you have the option to change the big lug-nuts out, they are much wider than a small hex or filister. The holes are bigger, yes?

[King IzzO)))]

Hex screws from a SuperD/Evo/Super3 will fit, it tightens it up, sharpens attack, and lessens the bass response. Swapping to DMZ screws would prolly fix the boom on the low end for cleans, but I think I'd lose too much of what I like about this pickup to swap them, and it might just end up sounding more like a JB8 or Alt8 at that point. I just sold my last Super anyway.

People rave about that mod on a stock Invader.

[LatsMcGee]

I am glad you got what you wanted out of that Invader! It would be awesome to hear some clips......

[Soulcrusher_X]

Thanks for posting this. You are THE resource for dealing with different types of magnet swaps, I'm sure I'll be bugging you with questions when I try to make a deto8 in the future.

As for soulcrusher's question, I don't think you have the option to change the big lug-nuts out, they are much wider than a small hex or filister. The holes are bigger, yes?

Hex screws from a SuperD/Evo/Super3 will fit, it tightens it up, sharpens attack, and lessens the bass response. Swapping to DMZ screws would prolly fix the boom on the low end for cleans, but I think I'd lose too much of what I like about this pickup to swap them, and it might just end up sounding more like a JB8 or Alt8 at that point. I just sold my last Super anyway.

People rave about that mod on a stock Invader.

So are the bobbins for the invader flat on top without the chamfers for where the filisters would fit into? Ive never even seen an invader in person. I know the JB8/DD8/INV8 have that rawwwr thing going on like you say, but how does it compare to say...the regular DD? I like that roar that the DD has, but it's so damn stiff in this LP that I have. Probably due to the ebony board. Would the JB8 or DD8 blend that DD attitude with a little of that JB 'sag' or 'squish'? Maybe a JB8 with hexes or the INV8 with half DMZ hexes and half fillisters/small hexes?

Maybe I should shut up and buy an Iron Man.

[King IzzO)))]

Yep, Invader bobbins are flat on top and have bigger holes for the pole screws.

I can't prepare you for the roar of the JB/DD8, there's no explaining it. It is less stiff and more dynamic than the stock DD, but you may or may not like the roar. I would def try it if you've got a JB or a DD. If not just get an Alt8.

You cannot go wrong with an Ironman though.

[Soulcrusher_X]

Ive never really looked into the Alt8. Does it have that rawwr thing going on, or is it a little more subdued? The only clip Ive heard of the Alt8 sounded like something was wrong with it.