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Thread: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

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    Something Cool uOpt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by newking70 View Post
    how is burning your lungs medicinal? you wanna smoke dope fine, dont insult my intelligence by labeling it medical. marijuana smoke contains 50-70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke.
    Marijuana is a painkiller that has different properties than any of the other painkillers, over the counter or prescription. It isn't "better" or "worse" but different. Some people for some kinds of pain are much better off on marijuana because it can be both more effective and have less side effects than regular painkillers.

    You see opium based painkillers are available on prescription and opium does nasty things to your body, much worse than marijuana. If marijuana gets the job done it should be used instead.

    In Europe some people who have permanent pain moved to the Netherlands specifically because they didn't want to screw up their bodies with prescription painkillers and not live illegally either.

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    John Mayer's Mankini ImmortalSix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bungalowbill View Post
    May I ask why?
    Can you name any other plants that grow in the ground that are illegal for citizens to consume?

    (You can't.)

    Why is this one plant, out of say 300,000 species of plants, the ONE that is forbidden? Is it bad?

    It's hard to articulate, but basically humans + earth should be able to do whatever they want to do together.

    Also, for context, I am not a marijuana user, and am not interested in becoming one.

    The government outlawing / prescribing punishment for using something that grows in the ground is ridiculous.
    Last edited by ImmortalSix; 11-08-2011 at 09:09 AM.

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    Vintageologist crusty philtrum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalSix View Post
    If I grow a tobacco plant in my back yard, harvest a leaf, dry it, roll it, and smoke it, there is nothing illegal about that.

    Tobacco is not legislated with regard to whether it's legal or not.

    It's age restricted, and taxed to hell, none of which I like, but I understand at least.

    I think the U.S. Congress should approach marijuana the same way - "we can decide to age restrict this, or tax the hell out of it, but it is simply not our place to tell citizens that they cannot consume something that grows in the ground."
    Down here anyway, tobacco is a licensed crop ... you need a licence to grow it, and every bit of the crop has to be accounted for. No doubt you are only allowed to sell it to certain organisations. Black market tobacco is imported and it is illegal to do so, and to buy and sell it. Sometimes bales of tobacco are stolen from licensed growers to sell on the black market, leaving the growers to have to account for the missing bales.

    I have a bag of tobacco seeds. I could plant them, and if i was successful in growing plants, i would technically be in breach of the law.
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalSix View Post
    Anything that grows in the ground should not be legislated.
    So you're cool with people growing coca leaf in their house and then processing it into pure cocaine? The coca plant grows in the ground . . .

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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Can you name any other plants that grow in the ground that are illegal for citizens to consume?
    Opium poppies?
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    John Mayer's Mankini ImmortalSix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    So you're cool with people growing coca leaf in their house and then processing it into pure cocaine? The coca plant grows in the ground . . .
    I think that the government has jurisdiction to prevent citizens from processing, but not from growing.

    Furthermore, I do not agree that the government has jurisdiction to prescribe punishment for a citizen grabbing a leaf of any kind and eating it. Or drying it and smoking it.

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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalSix View Post
    I think that the government has jurisdiction to prevent citizens from processing, but not from growing.
    This is a very tough arbitrary line to draw/enforce. Chewing is technically a form of 'processing' a leaf. Lighting a leaf on fire is a form of processing it. I can see where you're trying to come from on this issue, but this stance would open up many more issues than you seem to realize.

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    Toneologist Gypsyblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    I see getting high as being a victimless crime as long as you're not driving while impaired or doing something while impaired that if you mess up, innocent people will be hurt.

    I think Immortal Six is probably right.

    If more drugs were legal we'd also do away with the criminals and gangs both here in the USA and south of the border who exist only because those drugs are illegal.

    Wouldn't that be nice?

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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gearjoneser View Post
    I think we should start asking why pharmaceutical companies are allowed to sell things on the open market that have 100 disclaimers and warnings about another 100 horrible things that you can get by using their products.

    And, stop messing with a business that provides people with herbs that only have 2 side effects, happiness and the munchies.
    PRO-

    i smoked it for 30 + years, dont smoke now, i'm a semitruck owner/operator, unfortuntley ,it is detectable for up to 30 days, or i would still smoke(only on my off time,not driving), ,you can take a person that is really in a bad mood ,& get him/her to smoke, within minutes, they will be smiling /good mood, downside is the munchies, & the illegal aspect BTW i never have & never will smoke cigaretts, cant be around them = severe headaches from them..
    Last edited by rammer69; 11-08-2011 at 10:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    If there was a THC equivalent to a breathalyzer test, I think law enforcement would be more likely to endorse the revision of marijuana legislation.
    There is. The cop just grabs the window sill, leans in real close, bugs out his eyes, and whispers real loudly to the driver in a Satchmo voice, "Are you HIIIIGH, man?"

    If the driver laughs, he is on The Pot.
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    As far as I can tell it's about as dangerous as alcohol. For that reason alone it probably should be legal. I don't think it's this perfectly safe substance that will solve most of the world's problems like many proponents claim. It probably won't hurt you more than alcohol like some opponents claim. It's clear that the only reason alcohol is legal but pot isn't is becasue of history and not logic.

    Whether it grows in the ground or not has got to be the silliest reason for whether or not something should be legal or not. That's even less logical than the reason it's illegal now.

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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Interesting thread. I myself am a smoker and aside from the stereotypical stoner opinion, "legalize it man!" I actually believe the benefits outweigh the cons.

    For one, there are two main classifications of cannabis, indica and sativa, and both have similar effects but there are subtle differences. In general most indica strains provide a "body buzz" and increased appetite. Note that the body buzz can either be a "couch-lock" feeling or just an overall loosening of the muscles and limbs. These strains are more likely to be useful for patients with chronic pain, insomnia, and appetite. A good friend of mine got in a car accident and the doctors he went to prescribed all sorts of painkillers for his intense, sometimes crippling back pain. In the end a joint or some THC edibles cures what ails him with no adverse effects.

    Sativa strains tend to have less of a body load and more mental effects. Less couch-lock, and often heightened mental processing. I have personally that after smoking any sativa strain my ability to communicate isn't impaired at all; on the contrary it may even be improved, and I'll be expressing myself clearly, directly, and with a big smile on my face. Another generalization about the strains is that indica strains get you "stoned", but sativas get you "high".

    People who say that stoners are dumb, lazy, etc, have not had experience with responsible stoners. When I say responsible I'm talking about the people that are capable of moderating themselves and smoking often while still going to work and holding a job, not smoking excessive amounts, capable of interacting normally with others while high, and otherwise functioning as a productive member of society. A stoner doesn't have to be an unintelligent person.

    In the case of medical marijuana I believe it is a great treatment but could depend on self-moderation. I don't agree that it is necessarily fitting for treatment of depression but if you can alleviate some discomfort by using a vaporizer, eating a delicious THC-infused food, or just plain smoking, you should be able to have that as a legal option.

    I am also very much in agreement that it would help eliminate crime. If someone decides they want some marijuana it would be much safer to go to a dispensary and purchase it there than to get in contact with someone you may not know and who could be involved in a host of other illegal activities.

    For the record, I have driven high loads of times, both mildly high and very stoned. You can call me irresponsible all you want, and I admit that there was some risk involved, but the truth is I was always still better off than a drunk driver because I could think clearly, see clearly, and drive in a straight line. The stereotypical high driver would be driving more slowly and carefully whereas the stereotypical drunk driver swerves around at high speeds.
    Last edited by Metalman_666; 11-08-2011 at 10:01 AM.
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    Junior Member jalguitarman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    for true medical use I am undecided. i don't know if it should be legalized maybe decriminalized for those who use but not for dealers. Especially when you consider the violence involved with the drug trade.
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalSix View Post
    I think that the government has jurisdiction to prevent citizens from processing, but not from growing.
    Interesting concept. Many legal but prescription-only only drugs are based off things you are allowed to grow but aren't allowed to process into those drugs.

    However, this position, which makes growing plants that are bases for "hard drugs" legal, would weaken any effort to get rid of this useless circus around the more harmless drugs.

    The way to go about this is to argue along the lines of "free police resources to go after hard drugs instead of harassing stoned hippies who don't notice either way".

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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Another thing I'd like to add is that there is a complete order to nature, where everything is connected. People are healthiest when they eat fresh regional foods. Each species is perfectly adapted to their surroundings.

    I think it should be perfectly obvious that what is naturally provided around us was intended by nature to be used. If we had followed this way of thinking, we'd all be healthier. I'm pretty certain that humans were supposed to utilize everything in nature the way early man did. The Asians have relied on herbal medicine for centuries, just as they've eaten every single edible food available to them. They remain one of the healthiest cultures.

    What happened to the industrialized world is that we started making an industry out of mixing chemicals in test tubes. This was driven by money, not by holistic needs.

    Marijuana, coca, and opium were probably natures way of creating medicines for us, and it was more likely intended to be eaten. It's obviously not poisonous. All three cure pain, and coca is probably best as a topical anesthesia.

    But what did society do instead? Mixed man made chemicals to fix problems while introducing more unknown problems. Watch their commercials. It's almost comical.
    "Vomiting, rectal bleeding, nausea, diarrhea, .....those who are pregnant or have pre existing heart conditions....yada yada yada. Where do I sign up for THOSE awesome drugs??? They're the ones who should be shut down for poisoning the populace.
    I'm willing to bet more senior citizens plow down pedestrians on those drugs.
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    John Mayer's Mankini ImmortalSix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    This is a very tough arbitrary line to draw/enforce. Chewing is technically a form of 'processing' a leaf. Lighting a leaf on fire is a form of processing it. I can see where you're trying to come from on this issue, but this stance would open up many more issues than you seem to realize.
    I disagree - straight from the ground to your mouth does not involve processing.

    I will grant that drying something could count as processing, but real talk: that's not the spirit of what I'm presenting here. Processing coca into cocaine is one thing, and putting some leaves from your garden into your body is another thing completely.

    I'm not in to the semantics of the issue - that's not my role or intent here (also, I know better than to argue with GuitarStv, you're persistent!)

    I'm here to posit the idea that if a person on their own property wants to pick a leaf off a tree and put it in their mouth, no matter the case, they should be able to do that without any breach of law.

    It just seem preposterous to me that that could be (and is) legislated and punishable.

    Again, I'm not a marijuana user and do not wish to become one.

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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    My grandmother is in her late 80s now, and has chronic pain from arthritis. She gets crippling joint problems regularly. She has been rotating through different types of heavy painkillers for several years now. Percocet, codine, oxycontin, and many others. The problem is that the drugs all have side effects that are really scary. Loss of appetite, severe confusion, nausea, are all things that she has to deal with to get rid of her pain. We've taken my grandma to several doctors now, and they have all indicated that medicinal marijuana would likely be a better painkiller with fewer side effects for her. She'll likely start out on it soon.

    If allowing medical marijuana helps one old lady deal with pain, I could care less about the numbers of people who are abusing the system to get high. It's still doing net good. I completely support medicinal marijuana.
    ================================================

    Hey Guitar STV:

    Good point on seeking out the best way to help her . You have done your home work with the aid of the doctors who made the recommendation .

    Two cases in point :

    One 89 year old woman with neurological issues , mainly random pain that comes out from different areas like one day her back and then maybe her calf muscles and so on . The pain is in the actual nerves and MM takes care of that really good .

    Results :

    She's got no pain issues and needs no more codeine pills or like type pills , Her side effects - - Funny thing - since starting this she has seen a reduction of her high blood pressure medication too and that's got to be good .

    Her husband :

    Decorated WW2 vet , a man's man and now @ 93 he has just started to become his old self again due in part to edible MM just like his wife has benefited . His medical issue :

    [ Alzheimer's ] .

    It was looking dim for this most respected man and I wanted to help knowing of the MM studies of Alzheimer's that recently showed promise with Alzheimer's patients .

    It's unclear just what's going on with this treatment but what is confirmed is that it may not be a cure but a way to " stall " the advancement of this disease and not let it advance further than the current state of it's progression .

    Results :

    No more incontinence - WOW -

    Alert and engages in conversation instead of just sitting and staring blindly .

    Sense of humor has returned too - In short to me this is a miracle . Also to be noted was the problem of getting him to bath , and that also is not an issue anymore because of MM .

    Guitarstv made a really good post , I hope he keeps helping those who are in need of a clear minded person to help guide them in their medical choices when they are hampered by a serious medical condition . .

    Sincerely :

    Hurricane Ramon
    It started for me with Twinkle Twinkle Little Star in 54 on a Blues Harp and progressed , then life .....some death ....Evolving as I went like a small rock in a stream rounding out as I went with the flow as I go through the white waters and waterfalls of life . Life has always been interesting to me

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    Mojo's Minions lex666's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Pro.

    Let people make their own choices.

    There's no doubt marijuana has medical benefits. Why deny people?
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsyblue View Post
    I see getting high as being a victimless crime as long as you're not driving while impaired or doing something while impaired that if you mess up, innocent people will be hurt.

    I think Immortal Six is probably right.

    If more drugs were legal we'd also do away with the criminals and gangs both here in the USA and south of the border who exist only because those drugs are illegal.

    Wouldn't that be nice?
    Like a breeze and breath of fresh cool air on a hot humid summers day or

    Like an Ice cold beer on a hot summers day .

    If we help each other , and I mean not just the pro side but the con side too the end of this prohibition and constant attack on MM would end .

    Those that KNOW are in a way responsible to make a clear and positive argument to help the con attitudes who have not been honestly informed on this issue that does nothing but add to the problem . Those that KNOW see the clearer picture and not the gobbledygook that the govt sends out constantly .

    If this problem is attack this way I see a positive change a coming .

    Peace Brothers and Sisters in The Cause and Peace to those who listen and learn .

    Hurricane Ramon
    It started for me with Twinkle Twinkle Little Star in 54 on a Blues Harp and progressed , then life .....some death ....Evolving as I went like a small rock in a stream rounding out as I went with the flow as I go through the white waters and waterfalls of life . Life has always been interesting to me

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    Something Cool uOpt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medical Marijuana ¿ Pro or Con ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattt View Post
    Pro:

    - Holland are doing alright
    This isn't quite true, although the problems caused aren't directly caused by the legalization.

    The areas where you can legally consume it in Holland attracted way too many junkies from other countries. And those were real junkies who thought that smoking dope is the only really important thing in life, and those aren't "overly productive" after arrival. At some point the authorities actually closed consumption down so that only registered people from the city or the country (forgot which) were legal.

    Of course these problems wouldn't apply if you made it legal all over the US so they are kind of misleading. I just thought I should mention this bit for the sake of a fair discussion.

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