Does a trem strat bridge need to set floating to function perfectly?

[astrozombie]

or can you tighten it all the way to the bridge and still have the action screws on the bridge work well, etc. is it as big a deal as it is on PRS trems?

I remember setting up a strat a little while back and noticing how the particular bridge seemed to be designed for floating- nothing else.

[Empty Pockets]

I find Strat trems hardly function at all unless they're tightened down all the way...floating Strat trems are how Strats got their rep for sucking

[the guy who invented fire]

Low quality vibratos both in terms of build quality, materal quality and set up are how Strat trems got a rep for sucking...

The Strat vibrato was designed from day one to be a floating system and yes, IMO they need to be floating to work best.

Now, you might perfer the tone with it set flat to the deck but they don't work as well that way.

I was NEVER able to work with a Strat vibrato system until I spent the money on a good one and spent the time to set it up in such a way that I had zero or near zero tuning issues once I was there I started to really appreciate what the Strat vibrato was really all about.

Being able to take the pitch down as well as up as well as being able to produce that human voice like vibrato with it is the thing that makes is so very musical.

Strat with a floating vibrato is not a plug and play thing...it takes work to make it work...you have to put in the time to get a good one and spent the time to set it up in such a way that you can use it and stay in tune.

[MetalManiac]

Im not quite getting this. The OP asks whether to screw down the trem flat and tight to the bridge. This doesnt necessarily preclude a floating trem. That depends on the claw and springadjustment.

I understand where Empty Pockets is coming from if I think he means what I think he means. I pretty much always tightend my trem bridge down tight to the bridge, but adjusted the Claw and springs so it was still floating.. thats a good way to get best results for tuning stability but you still have to be cautious..some guitars can't handle to much float or the tuning will go outta wack..


Ideally, TGWIF is right..you adjust the bridge on a quality guitar a hair loose ( see Fenders guide for setting up the trems on thior website).
A quality guitar set to float medium well is the best prescription for great Start Tone.

[Tor]

Low quality vibratos both in terms of build quality, materal quality and set up are how Strat trems got a rep for sucking...

The Strat vibrato was designed from day one to be a floating system and yes, IMO they need to be floating to work best.

Now, you might perfer the tone with it set flat to the deck but they don't work as well that way.

I was NEVER able to work with a Strat vibrato system until I spent the money on a good one and spent the time to set it up in such a way that I had zero or near zero tuning issues once I was there I started to really appreciate what the Strat vibrato was really all about.

Being able to take the pitch down as well as up as well as being able to produce that human voice like vibrato with it is the thing that makes is so very musical.

Strat with a floating vibrato is not a plug and play thing...it takes work to make it work...you have to put in the time to get a good one and spent the time to set it up in such a way that you can use it and stay in tune.

What were your most important lessons in how to make a good trem work?

[lex666]

No problems with floating trems on my MIM strat, ESP LTD's, and Amer Deluxe Strat.

It takes some time to set up, but IMO its part of basic set-up skills. Just like intonating your guitar, you should know how to properly set up a floating trem.

IMO blocking the trem kinda defeats its purpose. I understand why many do this tho. To each his own.

[the guy who invented fire]

What were your most important lessons in how to make a good trem work?

A quality vibrato bridge and set up are, IMHO THE most important parts...

I'll explain a little...I know some folks out there either love or hate the Callaham tremolo but I'm going to use it as my example and or this forget about any tonal impact the Callaham might or might not have...I'm just talking about how the bridge as a piece of hardware works...

The holes in the bridge block that the strings pass through are very shallow, just deep enough to take the entire ball end w/o it sticking out.

Here is a pic of a Fender block notice how deep the ball ends are:



Here is a Callaham block, notice how close the ball ends are to the back edge of the block:



That keeps the part of the strings where they wind it up from getting throughthe block and into the saddle section...I'm talkign about this part of the string:



That means that only the smoothest part of the string is crossing over the saddle meaning less friction and less chance of tuning issues.

Then the saddles are cut in such a way as to lessen friction.

Look at this pic, the saddle hard left is a Callaham, middle is a pre CBS Fender and hard right is a new Fender...the "hot dog" shapped hole that the string passes through on the Callaham is the longest of the 3 meaning that the string has NO contact with the saddle until it crosses over the actual saddle part...again this leads to less tuning "hangups"

The knife edge on the Callaham plate is also "better" than most new vibrato bridges in that it is a very clean line that gives only one axis where a lot of low quality bridges due to crude build quality have the bridge trying to pivot on 2 seperate axis...this leads to more tuning issues...

I could go on and on about it but these 3 things IMO are the biggest things that make a well made bridge worth it not just in terms of money but in terms not not pulling your hair out trying to play a Stratocaster and not having tuning issues.

On top of that I set mine up so that really only the 2 screws under the e strings are in use...the other 4 are there but they are not screwd down as far as the other 2 even even those 2 are rather loose so they are causing as little fricrtion as possible after than make sure your nut has little to no binding goin on with strings from slots that are just too tight and you're well on your way.

Past all this make sure to string the guitar with several winds on each post and make sure they are very tight...use quality strings and be sure to streach them very good and you shoudl be golden.

My Strat is a MIM Jimmie Vaughan Strat, I do have a Callaham tremolo on it and it is set up like I just talked about and the nut is the stock nut and I use NO graphite, nut sauce, lube or any other mess to keep it in tune, it has the original and stock Kluson style keys and I can whammy as much as I want...everything from Gilmour style wiggle to Beck style tricks to evh dives AND COME BACK IN TUNE or SCARY CLOSE everytime.

[the guy who invented fire]

NOTE: I am NOT saying you HAVE to have Callaham vibrato...just a quality vibrato...

Use whatever you like, I like the Callaham and it works for me...it was the big door opener for me to be able to really use the vibrato bar with good results.

[the guy who invented fire]

Im not quite getting this. The OP asks whether to screw down the trem flat and tight to the bridge. This doesnt necessarily preclude a floating trem. That depends on the claw and spring adjustment.

It's a little early to be drinking...

First the "trem" and the bridge are the same thing on a Stratocaster.

Second, if you screw it down flat to the face then by defination it is not floating...

[Tor]

Wow, thanks for taking the time to write up that! I'm out for the evening, but I'll digest it when I get home. I've got a g&l trem which is supposed to be pretty good, but i feel there could be rooms of improvement. I suspect it may be the nut though..

[the guy who invented fire]

No worries!

The G&L trems are a little differnet than a vintage style/6 hole Fender but the key is still the key...set it up so that there is as little friction as possible!

Good luck!

[Quencho092]

To the OP- Floating is awesome for some. I like cancelling out potential issues and variables, floating is one of them, and my strat bridge intonates perfectly flat on the top of the body, 4 trem springs tightened down all the way. with string gauges from 9-14 over the past few years, so at least for the 2 point am dlx bridges, strat trems are fantastic and play non floating very well and easier to adjust and intonate than a TOM IMO.

[Jessie's ghost]

On top of that I set mine up so that really only the 2 screws under the e strings are in use...the other 4 are there but they are not screwd down as far as the other 2 even even those 2 are rather loose so they are causing as little fricrtion as possible after than make sure your nut has little to no binding goin on with strings from slots that are just too tight and you're well on your way.

I like this method of setting up a Strat trem. Dan Erlewine described it -- along with plenty of other tips for setting up a Strat -- in his books. I've done it to a couple of them and really liked the results.

[Varg]

It's a little early to be drinking...

First the "trem" and the bridge are the same thing on a Stratocaster.

In Jerrys defence, I think that is exactly the point he was making. The OP has worded his post very poorly, Jerry was just noting that.
For once, I think you guys are being harsh on Jerry!

[Quencho092]

In the OP's defence as well, profile says he's from puerto rico, spanish is probably his first language.

A non floating strat type trem, IME, has always had enough intonation screw length and enough height adjustment length on the saddles to achieve whichever intonated new string gauge setup and height that I wanted to get.

I've never encountered a bridge that didn't have enough range in these adjustments as to fail in getting setup properly and intonated, and I see where you're coming from with respect to being concerned about the lowering of the total height of the entire trem plate assembly and whether the height screws will take you to a proper action.

[Varg]

In the OP's defence as well, profile says he's from puerto rico, spanish is probably his first language.

A non floating strat type trem, IME, has always had enough intonation screw length and enough height adjustment length on the saddles to achieve whichever intonated new string gauge setup and height that I wanted to get.

I've never encountered a bridge that didn't have enough range in these adjustments as to fail in getting setup properly and intonated, and I see where you're coming from with respect to being concerned about the lowering of the total height of the entire trem plate assembly and whether the height screws will take you to a proper action.

I wasnt having a go at Astro (who, BTW speaks English just fine, way better than I speak Spanish lol), I was just sticking up for Jerry, which is a rare occurence.

[uOpt]

A 6-point trem pretty much has to have the 6 screws tight enough that the forward edge touches the deck. If the whole trem can move up and down the screws there's nothing you can do to keep the thing in tune.

Whether you then want the whole trem on the deck or whether you want the back of the trem in the air so that you can push and pull for pitch up and down is a matter of what you want to do with Mr. Guitar.

I use tremolos as a third kind of vibrato and that requires that I can pitch up and down.

If you use it for effects and general mayhem then being able to pitch down might be enough.

A 2-point trem (Fender or Floyd) can float on the forward edge, too, because it has notched screws and the trem can't move up and down the screw.

[Ayrton]

On vintage trems, I tighten the screws until they just touch the trem (set flat against the body). I don't float them, but it allows for a good bit of dive, and they stay in tune with everything, but a full bar dump.

[Diego]

That's the trick. The screws that hold the whole vibrato unit in place have to be as low as possible, while still allowing the back and forth action required.
It has to be set with lots of precision.

I set the trem on my AllParts barely floating, and it stays in tune pretty good.
And it's not a Callaham precisely, it's a Guitar Fetish trem.

[gibson175]

for many years i was a 5 spring and no trem player. But i have done some experimenting with the trem in the last few years.
this is what ive found:

its the nut where tuning goes awol (no prizes for working that out!)

At some stage you need to choose: do you want your strings to stay in tune when bending (being pulled up) or stay in tune when diving? Only a locking system allows both IME.

If you stretch your strings so that bending does not make them go out of tune, then diving on the trem will make them go out.

YOu can set it so that diving drops the strings back into tune like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Oyc...feature=relmfu
it works great, but when you bend the strings go flat...a quick dive will drop it back into tune, but this can be a pain to do all the time.
That video is really worth watching. However, you can take the concepts he presents here and reverse it, so that pulling up on a floating trem has the same effect.

i reckon setting it floating is the way to go.
Set the float to a semitone on the top string. Stretch the strings so that pulling up or bending pulls the strings into tune. Diving will push it out, but a quick tug on the trem will pull it back in to shape. Bending wont make your axe go out of tune - and for me i use bending a lot more than i dive.
The last advantage of a floating trem in that the arm sits lower and is more comfortable to use while picking.

I have a magazine that has a series of interviews with eddie van halen (the guitar player magazine ones)....the 1978 interview he explains how he uses the trem (this is pre floyd-rose days). He set it for floating and if he did a huge dive he would so a quick tung on the trem to re-set the tuning.