[drumbART] Bill Lawrence 500xl vs Dimebucker vs Wilde 500xl

[Grindspine]

I like the bold ceramic sound of the Dimebucker.

The Wilde pickup sounds like a very bland high output Alnico V 'bucker to me. It just sounded fizzy and lacked the tightness of the other two.

The BL USA sounded a bit thinner to me than the other two.

It just confirms (to my ears) that the Dimebucker is the one I want in my Washburn.

[Grindspine]

Oh hell yeah, man! The Dime ****ing slays in mahogany! Tames a lot of that harsh treb but retains all the balls. I loved mine in a mahog super strat. Give it a go!

Exactly, I don't know if I could use it in anything but a thick slab of mohogany!

[GilmourD]

I listened to the video... Well, I listened to it on my phone... So I will want to revisit this when I get home to my computer. However, I think the Dimebucker had the most balls of the three. It seemed a bit more harmonically rich, a hair more powerful, and more head bob inducing. LOL

let's see if my opinion stays the same once I get a good listen on my computer.

It's definitely subtle but there's something that the Dimebucker's got that the B&B and the BLUSA don't... Just some sort of ballsiness that's just in your face even though the EQs on them are relatively close.

[formula73]

Hi, just join the forum as it's the first positive approach on the L500XL/Dimebucker debate I ever read.

The video test gives an incredible and clear feedback on the different pickups differences.

L-500XL USA model is the one I own and I can clearly ear the sharp edgy sound of my nasty companion. I discover this pup in a used Culprit model I bought paired with a SD 59' neck. I immediately recognized a strong personality inviting to heavy riffs for which it's imho the best choice, as its sharp and powerfull output keep the most distorded power chord and palm mute "clean", not muddy at all, incredibly agressive .
Back side of the medal some people find it "thin" while I still say "sharp" .

L-500XL B&B : I never heard it in such close comparison before this excellent video. It is clearly fatter, more balanced and consensual, i'd say gentle regarding its natural opponent. I read lots of feedback where riffer prefer the USA while soloist go for the B&B.

Finally the Dimebucker appears as the best of the two worlds. I found it very close to the USA ie incredibly agressive but thicker, keeping a strong personallity but still organic.

Happy to have SD designer who raised the Dimebucker writing here.

Funny you should mention that pickup in that guitar. So far, my Culprit's favorite bridge pickup is a USA L500XL. The guitar itself is somewhat middy and bassy, even with the Floyd, and it really likes the high end on the L500XL. Right now, it's got a set of these pos GFS Bigmouth things...just cause they look cool. Get home and throw a USA back in there, get used to it, and then maybe try a Dimebucker for shihtzngiggles. Now, I just need a chrome-covered super bright pickup for the neck.

[tourettes]

Yeah, it's real bassy, mine is drop C tuned. I think the mahogany body and no tone pot helps in this.
Here is mine , neck is SD 59, as yous may notice the L500-XL is reversed as Dime used to, he mentioned this to get a proper low end blast .
How about the coil position regarding the printing on a Dimebucker ?

[formula73]

Those things have basswood bodies.

I'd go double black but it looks odd without the chrome covers, imho, which is why I tried so many different things aside from the Lawrences. I'd even go chrome rings, but for the fact that the stockers are oversized-not just a normal ring. Here it was with an X2N/Fred combo.



From what I've read, the coil position on a Dimebucker is as Dime intended, as in some pics, he flipped them around, as well-the early ones. Personally, I think it's smoke and mirrors...

It's a good thing (or bad, depending on how I feel about it, that day...) the neck shape on these is so cool. Wide and thin/flat with obvious shoulders like shredder meets classical. After all the pickups, the OFR, CTS/Switchcraft, and the refret with stainless 6000s, I'd be an idiot if I didn't keep it.

[tourettes]

Yes basswood body and mapple neck, contemporary resellers catalogs mislead on this.

Regarding the genesis of the Dimebucker Willi Stich (Bill Lawrence Wylde pickup maker) gives on his site a low opinion on SD capacity to build a brand new pickup design claiming they've just done "reverse engineering".
SD gives a more sensible approach starting from several Dime's BL pickup and "changed the magnet type, the wire gauge, the number of turns, and other factors.Dime tested the pickups on tour, so they got real world "arena" testing. After a few back-and-forth exchanges, we finally nailed his tone."

What need for such scorn as it's quite noticeable that Wylde B&B is far from the Dimebucker in term of tone which is even closer to the Bill Lawrence USA.

[DeanSweden]

What need for such scorn as it's quite noticeable that Wylde B&B is far from the Dimebucker in term of tone which is even closer to the Bill Lawrence USA.

so it's safe to say the Dimebucker was modeled after the original USA ones?

[Mr 9finger]

Why not just pick the one that sounds best in your guitar and leave it at that? They are what they are. How they came to be and who made them does not really matter in the grand scheme of whether or not your guitar sounds good.

The only clear and relevant thing outside of how they sound IN YOUR GUITAR, is that Dime used all 3 pickups at one point or another while he was with us. If that's how you want to pick your tone, then match the pickup to the era and leave it at that.

[metalmachine]

Why not just pick the one that sounds best in your guitar and leave it at that? They are what they are. How they came to be and who made them does not really matter in the grand scheme of whether or not your guitar sounds good.

The only clear and relevant thing outside of how they sound IN YOUR GUITAR, is that Dime used all 3 pickups at one point or another while he was with us. If that's how you want to pick your tone, then match the pickup to the era and leave it at that.

+8 million

[tourettes]

Just dig the subject of the work done on the dimebucker thanks to the incredible pieces given here written by Dime hand and the tech who worked with him, it's so so so impressive even if don't use it (yet).
It gives me just one word : RE-SPECT

[GilmourD]

so it's safe to say the Dimebucker was modeled after the original USA ones?

As Evan Skopp has posted MANY times, it's based on a prototype L500XXL that was made for Dime, not the L500XL from either BL USA or Bill and Becky.

[Maynardo]

Actually it seems to be more the "L+", at least according to BLs people

http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/Wa...chaseOrder.htm

[tourettes]

Thanks for this link I didn't know, still the same "i've been stolen my pickup" story as he insinuates the Dimebucker is just one of his proto copy ( "Dimebucker was almost identical to the measurement of an "L-500 L+" prototype").
But the sounds recorded gives a different version, the SD13 is closer to BL USA than his owns, perhaps he was even obliged to produce a very close bro of the old BL USA he once did !!! .

"Wajcman pup has about 24.3% lesser output" This assertion is contradicted by any people who use this pup even compared to active ones, the output is so high as noticeable in the video, the harmonics flows out like from a spring, I found even slighty more than from the Dimebucker.

"Wajcman pup 25.9% frequency shift to the higher midrange resulting in a dramatic loss of lows."
I fairly admit the shift in mid-high which is this pup signature but regarding the low it's not a loss at all as low string gives a strong and very clean bump sound but no muddy at all.

This bass remark in my head I heard again the B&B and there is indeed some bassy beat like an octaver feedback produced by this pup you don't have with the Dimebucker nor the BL USA.
I personally don't like à la Tone Zone pups with such low end beat that becomes muddy and not intelligible rythm playing in live situation, I'd rather get a sharp thrash tone embossing the bass in a sparkling mid-high tone that cuts through the mix (still just my own taste).

[formula73]

You're still also talking about the XL, which has so much low end it's ridiculous. Read up on the wildegate forum (links through the wilde pickup site).

[Mr 9finger]

OK Tourettes. We get it. You've made it quite clear in your 6 posts total here that you don't like Bill's pickups. This topic has been beaten to death and nobody really cares about it anymore. If you like the Bill Lawrence USA and Dimebucker better, then use them. No one is ever going to force you to use a Bill and Becky pickup. All your passive aggressive slams on an old man that's been battling cancer just makes you look like a doosh bag.

[tourettes]

You got nothing.

As stated start of this thread :

Lots of crap flowing over the web about 500xl pickups...

This is the very first time people can judge on the sound thanks to the video test.

Now this assertion as the Dimebucker is a copy makes laugh as the tonal flavour is hearingly so different.

I made clear in my posts i prefer bright pickups.
You may have noticed I said I don't like the Tone Zone also, I hope Larry Dimarzio goes well.

[speed2dirt]

Now this assertion as the Dimebucker is a copy makes laugh as the tonal flavour is hearingly so different.

I really don't want to get involved in this, but will say that Bill Lawrence stated it was reverse engineered, meaning they took a finished BL XL500 and pulled it apart to see how it went together. Seymour Duncan took the basic layout and tweaked things to Dime's specs (ceramic magnet, overwound a bit, etc). It is not a copy, nor has Bill ever said that!

[Evan Skopp]

Alright guys, let's remember to respect everyone's opinion.

I've read so much stuff about this subject that just totally contradicts my memory -- and I was in the middle of it, at least a part of it. But the fact is, memories aren't perfect. One thing about Dime, he was the type of guy who liked to have everyone around him get along. So let's all respect his memory by getting along here.

[formula73]

I'll play...

I'm on the Wildegate forum and I won't ever say it (there's a lot of bad blood and Becky, herself is on the forum) but I like both the USA and BnB and I wouldn't be surprised if I liked the Dimebucker, given another try. Hell, I LOVED the L350s and really wish they'd make them again!