How do you string your Les Paul?

[Jessie's ghost]

In a perfect world, yes, but some guys get behind a keyboard and feel the need to lash out and vent. We have occasional tantrums here, but don't let that scare you away. Most of us can stay calm and not attack anyone personally. I don't lose sleep over that nonsense, nor should anyone else.

It really is nothing to worry about. It's all part of leaving the seat up and practicing ambulatory knuckle dermabrasion.

[ItsaBass]

I keep hearing that it "transfers more tone" having the tail piece all the way down. I really don't get those statements. First of all, tone is a quality of sound, not a particular thing that is transferred from one place to another. Second, aside from how it influences the break angle (which it really doesn't need to, as you can achieve the same angle simply by raising the tail piece studs), why would anything going on behind the bridge make an audible difference? It doesn't seem to me that the height of the tail piece would influence tone in any way.

[Jessie's ghost]

I keep hearing that it "transfers more tone" having the tail piece all the way down. I really don't get those statements. First of all, tone is a quality of sound, not a particular thing that is transferred from one place to another. Second, aside from how it influences the break angle (which it really doesn't need to, as you can achieve the same angle simply by raising the tail piece studs), why would anything going on behind the bridge make an audible difference? It doesn't seem to me that the height of the tail piece would influence tone in any way.

When people talk about "tone" getting "transferred", they're really talking about vibrational energy. I honestly don't know how much difference the tailpiece being all the way down makes in this, but conceptually it's about getting more of the guitar vibrating as a single piece. I think it promotes more sustain and more complex overtones.

Plenty of things beyond the nominal vibrating length of the string influence tone. Ever read what people have observed about the differences in trem blocks in a Strat or Floyd-equipped guitar? Or about the differences between a traditional through-body Tele bridge and a top-loader?

[ItsaBass]

When people talk about "tone" getting "transferred", they're really talking about vibrational energy. I honestly don't know how much difference the tailpiece being all the way down makes in this, but conceptually it's about getting more of the guitar vibrating as a single piece. I think it promotes more sustain and more complex overtones.

Plenty of things beyond the nominal vibrating length of the string influence tone. Ever read what people have observed about the differences in trem blocks in a Strat or Floyd-equipped guitar? Or about the differences between a traditional through-body Tele bridge and a top-loader?

String through body and top loading give you different angles over the saddles, so there would be differences in feel, and in tone/sustain.

And the entire vibrato is floating on a Strat, so differences in weight could greatly affect how the vibrato moves and resonates when playing the guitar, thus affecting tone and sustain.

In each of these cases, a difference is perhaps audible, perhaps not. But at least it makes physical sense why there might be a difference at all.

However, in a TOM/tailpiece, at a given angle of the strings over the saddles, what would the difference be in where the tailpiece is located? The only difference would be the length of string between the bridge and tail piece...and that difference would only be about 3/8 inch.

I get the mechanics of how top wrapping allows you to achieve the same break angle while having the tailpiece lower. I just don't see how having it lower could make any difference in tone or sustain.

If people simply said that they wrap over the top just because they feel like it, or they like the way it looks, or their favorite guitarist does it, I would get it. But quoting some highly questionable physical reason why it makes the tone and feel better, I don't get.

[Jessie's ghost]

String through body and top loading give you different angles over the saddles, so there would be differences in feel, and in tone/sustain.

And the entire vibrato is floating on a Strat, so differences in weight could greatly affect how the vibrato moves and resonates when playing the guitar, thus affecting tone and sustain.

In each of these cases, a difference is perhaps audible, perhaps not. But at least it makes physical sense why there might be a difference at all.

However, in a TOM/tailpiece, at a given angle of the strings over the saddles, what would the difference be in where the tailpiece is located? The only difference would be the length of string between the bridge and tail piece...and that difference would only be about 3/8 inch.

I get the mechanics of how top wrapping allows you to achieve the same break angle while having the tailpiece lower. I just don't see how having it lower could make any difference in tone or sustain.

If people simply said that they wrap over the top just because they feel like it, or they like the way it looks, or their favorite guitarist does it, I would get it. But quoting some highly questionable physical reason why it makes the tone and feel better, I don't get.

In all three cases, there's more going on than just geometry. Not all Strat bridges float, but I think the block still makes a difference. Same with the Tele -- it's more that just string angle geometry. And with the stop-bar.

You could spend time wondering whether something should make a difference, or you could try it to see if it does. If you really don't think anything outside the string length matters, maybe you also think things like wood don't matter. Because they shouldn't.

But I've already said that I don't know if it makes a difference. And I don't really care if it does. It just makes me feel warm and cozy inside. Like puppies and kittens.

[blueman335]

I get the mechanics of how top wrapping allows you to achieve the same break angle while having the tailpiece lower. I just don't see how having it lower could make any difference in tone or sustain.

I'm a top wrapper for feel more than anything else. If there's a tonal effect too, so be it. Logically though, if a stop bar is down flush with the top, the two posts are screwed deeper into the body, and there may be vibrations transferred to more wood surface because of it. I'm not losing sleep over how anybody else anchors their strings.

[Zhaggy]

I'm a top wrapper for feel more than anything else. If there's a tonal effect too, so be it. Logically though, if a stop bar is down flush with the top, the two posts are screwed deeper into the body, and there may be vibrations transferred to more wood surface because of it. I'm not losing sleep over how anybody else anchors their strings.

Yeah, it's not the fact that the tail piece is on a certain height. When it's all the way down the screws are deeper and the threads are deeper touching the posts' threads more. And when you top wrap the strings touch the tail piece far more then the regular way. That's probably why people say that it "transfers" "tone" or "vibrational energy" or whatever you wanna call it. I don't know if it actually makes any difference. I haven't had the need to do so.

Again, some of us don't hear or feel the difference: Some of us do and those who do may or may not like it. And even if the difference is barely audible, why not make it if it's for the better.

Difference or not, as Jessie's Ghost said: "It just makes me feel warm and cozy inside." That's good enough for me.

[Zhaggy]

Actually I can't say that I think Zakk's LP tone is all that great. TBH although he's written some great music, his current tone/music ... meh. Hell even some of his earlier music didn't have the best tones IMHO (funny because I used to chase that tone around 15 years ago - GAAHH! Time warp.). Fantastic player, but recently it's like he's been taking soloing lessons from Kirk Hammett -> *Engage Wah* -> Reeeerrrraaagghhreeeea! Phthpbthtophthtpbpbpbth! Rreeeeeaawwwwwrrr! Pbthpbthpbthpbbth vvvveeeerrrr! Waaaar! Waaaah! Waaaar! Woooooouuuuaaarr! Arrr! Eeee! Arrr! Eeee!

You're 100% right. He hasn't moved on since... I don't know... No More Tears or something. But I think he has good tone occasionally and I remember 15 something years ago when I started noticing him it made a huge impact on me tonally and otherwise. He is still my #1 till the end but he hasn't done anything new since 1919 Eternal which I liked very much but the rest is just... grey.

But I think his attitude when playing whatever he plays is unbeatable, even today.

[Aceman]

To answer the OP seriously, we have to do the study:

10 LP's, half top wrapped, and half normal, set up otherwise correctly. Listen to them blind, play them blind and tell me which you think sustains more and which bends easier.

This isn't that hard to do. It hasn't been done because most would agree right out of the box that the math says "no difference" the psycho acoustics+physics say "No audible/perceivable difference." By most most I do not mean a bunch of idiot superstitious drunk/high/deaf musicians. I'll sling crap at Gibson for all kinds of reasons, but they have spent more years setting up LP's than a million guitar players put together. They do it the way they do it for a reason. I bet it's a good one.

Again - not dissing anyone's chops. Just saying Eric Johnson can't hear battery brands, and Stevie Ray set his amp on the same numbers every night while his tech pulled the knobs off and adjusted the eq.

If you like it go for it. But I'm with 175 - it's 90% posing and imagination. I could be wrong.

[blueman335]

1) To answer the OP seriously, we have to do the study: 10 LP's, half top wrapped, and half normal, set up otherwise correctly. Listen to them blind, play them blind and tell me which you think sustains more and which bends easier...By most most I do not mean a bunch of idiot superstitious drunk/high/deaf musicians.

2) If you like it go for it. But I'm with 175 - it's 90% posing and imagination. I could be wrong.

Responses:

1) Good luck finding 10 guys here that aren't drunk, high, or deaf. Most are probably all three.

2) You wrong? Hasn't happened yet in all the years we've known you.

[Wattage]

You guys are dorks, have always been dorks and will always be dorks.

[Aceman]

You guys are dorks, have always been dorks and will always be dorks.

On this, I think we all agree.

[Jessie's ghost]

It's 90% posing and imagination.

Yeah… a lot of things are like that.

[gibson175]

Bite my tampon, Junior Member.

heheheheee.
he got you there ace!

[formula73]

Yeah… a lot of things are like that.

I'd say probably MORE than 90% of being a guitarist is posing and imagination.

[Aceman]

<= He must have been thinking of Junior Mints or something. I'm a Minion baby.

heheheheee.
he got you there ace!

*ahem*

[blueman335]

I'd say probably MORE than 90% of being a guitarist is posing and imagination.

For some, yes.

[Jessie's ghost]

<= He must have been thinking of Junior Mints or something. I'm a Minion baby.



*ahem*

I'm seldom not thinking of Junior Mints.

[MetalManiac]

By most most I do not mean a bunch of idiot superstitious drunk/high/deaf musicians.

I resent that! .I am not deaf!

[formula73]

For some, yes.

Imagination=writing and creativity

Posing=stage presence

You have neither of those things?