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Thread: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

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    Cranky-dologist Snoogles's Avatar
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    Default Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    I'm thinking more and more that i want to get a gun or 8, but i don't want the government knowing that i might have one.
    do you need a permit to buy a gun at a gun show? can you get ammunition at gun shows?
    are there any states where you can get a gun legally without a permit?

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    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    i live in ny. you need a permit to get a handgun. doesnt matter where you get it from. if you dont have a permit, you cant legally own a handgun. dont think you need one for long arms.

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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    It varies per state.... You dont need a "permit" to own a pistol just carry one in my state. They run your name to see if you are on a retarded idiot list and file you in a state database.

    Go to a gun shop and ask the owner... they'll promptly tell you the laws. They have to know them because the state will shut them down.

    I am not sure exactly on how gun shows work. I always assumed they didnt' run papers at them... I've never been to one. I just know you can get very good deals on everything.
    Last edited by grumptruck; 12-30-2011 at 12:29 PM. Reason: fluff

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    Toneologist JollyRoger523's Avatar
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    Contrary to what the anti-gun crowd will have you believe there is no "gun show loop hole". Any gun purchased from a dealer, either at their store or their booth at a gun show, is required to go through the federal process (forms, back ground checks, etc.). Different states may also have additional laws. Yes you can buy guns and ammo at a gun show. You'll also find a bunch of useless junk that you would find at a yard sale.

    Didn't you start a thread a while ago about having money to buy a bunch of guns and move to Montana?

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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    You need a driver's license, a utility bill with your name and address, and a firearms safety certificate that shows you passed an easy test for $25. You take the test at a gun store. You still have whatever waiting period your state requires, so you may not be able to walk away with a new gun that day.

    Contrary to what you may have heard, gun shows don't sell guns under the table. They sell under the same FFL regulations as stores. You're just more likely to find used guns, collectibles, and parts.....and cheaper ammo - the only reason I go.

    You really don't want to buy an under the table gun. If you ever get pulled over by a cop or Ranger and they run your gun, having a stolen gun makes you a criminal no matter what you say. They can run serial numbers in their car.

    The people who can't buy legally are felons and those who ordered into a mental health facility.
    Last edited by Gearjoneser; 12-30-2011 at 06:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    I actually understand the OP's position. I don't really want the feds knowing what I have. If they know what you have, they know where to collect it.

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    Mojo's Minions dominus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by JollyRoger523 View Post
    Contrary to what the anti-gun crowd will have you believe there is no "gun show loop hole". Any gun purchased from a dealer, either at their store or their booth at a gun show, is required to go through the federal process (forms, back ground checks, etc.).
    That's only if you're buying from a dealer. If you're buying from a private seller, you won't fill out the 4473 form. So yes, there technically is a gun show loophole. (I have yet to see a gun show where ONLY licensed dealers are allowed to sell.)

    Before you call me a member of the anti-gun crowd, I probably own more guns than you.


    For the original poster - it matters ENTIRELY what state you live in, and what you plan on buying.

    In Michigan, you need to have a purchase permit (or a concealed pistol license) to buy a handgun at any time. You can buy rifles on the street. The 4473 form is only filled out when you buy from a licensed firearms dealer, BUT, Michigan does require registration of all handguns, so there's a transfer form that you fill out and file with the local police department.
    Last edited by dominus; 12-30-2011 at 03:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Mushroomclause didn't bring you one?

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    Toneologist JollyRoger523's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by dominus View Post
    That's only if you're buying from a dealer. If you're buying from a private seller, you won't fill out the 4473 form.
    I'm aware that private sales also occur at gun shows. I don't personally consider it a "loop hole" since you can conduct private sales without the gun show (even though you do have a better chance of finding a buyer/seller at one).

    Cranky be sure to check into your local laws too. In Ohio you don't need any special permits to buy a gun (unless of course it's a firearm that requires a federal permit) or registration. You do need a CCW permit to carry a concealed firearm. In Ohio there is an age restriction that you can't buy a handgun until you're 21. You can buy a long gun at 18. Depending on where you live, even if you buy a gun via a private sale (no federal paperwork) you may still be required to do some local paperwork on it. A word of caution, if you can't legally buy a firearm from a dealer then you most likely can't legally own one either.

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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by JollyRoger523 View Post
    I'm aware that private sales also occur at gun shows. I don't personally consider it a "loop hole" since you can conduct private sales without the gun show (even though you do have a better chance of finding a buyer/seller at one).
    I was just about to bring that up. FTF (face to face) sales in several states require no documentation, whatsoever, though the seller is free to demand id from you and make a reciept, if desired, just to cover his ass. This applies whether it's across the table at a gun show, in a back alley, or in a Safeway parking lot, picking up something you found on a local gun forum.

    It's not a "gun show loop hole" like the anti gunners say, but then again, to them, we're all Skoal dippin rednecks, crusing around in our old C30s, spotlighting deer, and waiting for any opportunity at all to shoot somebody.
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by formula73 View Post
    It's not a "gun show loop hole" like the anti gunners say, but then again, to them, we're all Skoal dippin rednecks, crusing around in our old C30s, spotlighting deer, and waiting for any opportunity at all to shoot somebody.


    So do you have a better term for the fact that people can buy guns without showing ID or proving that they can legally own a firearm? "Gun Show Loophole" is just a term used that most people can understand.

    Like I said, I probably own more guns than you do. But I can also step back and look at both sides of the argument.
    "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." Isaiah 13:16

    "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31:17-18


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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    i live in ny. you need a permit to get a handgun. doesnt matter where you get it from. if you dont have a permit, you cant legally own a handgun. dont think you need one for long arms.
    i live in NYC, and i don't want anybody... ESPECIALLY the government knowing i might have a (or multiple) firearm(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by JollyRoger523 View Post
    Contrary to what the anti-gun crowd will have you believe there is no "gun show loop hole". Any gun purchased from a dealer, either at their store or their booth at a gun show, is required to go through the federal process (forms, back ground checks, etc.). Different states may also have additional laws. Yes you can buy guns and ammo at a gun show. You'll also find a bunch of useless junk that you would find at a yard sale.

    Didn't you start a thread a while ago about having money to buy a bunch of guns and move to Montana?
    very likey. i've been to montana a few times and i'm in love with the place.

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    INTENSELY corrosive sweat formula73's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by dominus View Post
    So do you have a better term for the fact that people can buy guns without showing ID or proving that they can legally own a firearm? "Gun Show Loophole" is just a term used that most people can understand.

    Like I said, I probably own more guns than you do. But I can also step back and look at both sides of the argument.
    WTF, man? You realize that wasn't directed at you, right? I know you're not an anti gun nut.

    That said, WTF does the number of firearms you own have thing-f'ing-one to do with gun laws, or more specifically, FTF/private party sales? Personally, I don't see both sides of the argument. You're taking this in a political direction and ok, I'll bite: I see the Bill of Rights side of the argument. I refuse to pander to those who would water it down or take it away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty Pockets View Post
    the Les Paul is the ultimate electric guitar.
    i know that's a pretty heavy statement to make and a bunch of dudes that love Teles and shredsticks are gona argue with me, but they're wrong.
    anything you can't do on a Les Paul is because you haven't practiced enough or you don't rock hard enough.
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    You put the "pow" in "power bottom."
    Quote Originally Posted by MetalManiac View Post
    *Thumpety Thump Thump Thump...WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP"

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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    As far as I know, all gun shows across the US have to do the call in "yellow sheet" and be approved on all guns, unless they were made before 1898. That's not saying you can't do plenty of cash F2F transactions with individuals at gun shows. To me, that's all I go for because I don't like records showing my personal stuff.

    If you don't want a paper trail of what you have, hit your local classifieds and Armslist.com private sales for your state and surrounding states, depending on how serious you are about building an untraceable collection and how far you want to travel.

    Honestly, when they started keeping tabs that they said they weren't keeping tabs on through dealers I ended up selling every gun I owned that I had ever had to run the paperwork on to buy. I sold most of them at a loss to dealers, just for the fact to have receipts showing I had passed them back on to an FFL dealer and they were no longer in my possesion.

    Take it however you want to. This is coming from someone that is part owner of a pawnshop and is in very close with more than a few FFL dealers and Class II manufacturers.
    Last edited by Lucid_Lunatic; 12-30-2011 at 09:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by formula73 View Post
    ..... to them, we're all Skoal dippin rednecks, crusing around in our old C30s, spotlighting deer, and waiting for any opportunity at all to shoot somebody.

    Don't you just hate the stereotyping ... I mean, I have never dipped Skoal.
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    If you have never purchased a firearm, do not purchase one where you put Govco between you and your firearm (as most of us have ignorantly done).

    Before you purchase you should consider the 2nd.

    What does it say?
    What was the intent?
    Why was it the 2nd?
    What was Henrys position on ratifying the Constitution
    Why would Henry not sign unless the 10 were included?

    If you have never purchased and are not in Govco database, purchase "Bostons Gun Bible" and read it cover to cover before you purchase. You will be very enlightened on owning a firearm, what it means, and why it is so important. Every American should own at least one firearm and know how to proficiently use it.

    If you have already compromised yourself with respect to Govco (and the 2nd), then it does not matter. Purchase what you want, when you want, knowing you are screwed and it only comes down to probability and conviction. I would still recommend Bostons book so you can understand how badly you screwed yourself once you bowed to kiss Govco boots.

    Our grandfathers carried firearms for centuries. They certainly did not need Govco consent. That is very much what finally got the colonialist to stop licking boots and start kicking ass.

    Your firearm is your business. It is your responsibility to keep it that way. There is not a firearm sold at a gun show you cannot find from a private party. It is worth it to pay more if it means protecting your privacy and your right to own a firearm as originally intended.

    Your gggg daddy got around just fine without Govco consent, so can you. CCW permits are just another way for Govco to track. Don't buy into it, you don't have to, but understand, owning and carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility.

    You let Govco on the inside and you just screwed yourself plain and simple. You may live your life out and it won't matter one bit. Depending on your age, I would bet otherwise.

    Get training from the best you can. You'll have to seek it out, but there are great ones out there that will show you just for asking.

    It's not enough to own it - you gotta know how to use it - from there it is all conviction.

    Another very good read - "Death by Gun Control"

    The easy way is to lick the boots - good chance you will live to regret it.

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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucid_Lunatic View Post
    Honestly, when they started keeping tabs that they said they weren't keeping tabs on through dealers I ended up selling every gun I owned that I had ever had to run the paperwork on to buy. I sold most of them at a loss to dealers, just for the fact to have receipts showing I had passed them back on to an FFL dealer and they were no longer in my possesion.
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    Cranky-dologist Snoogles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucid_Lunatic View Post
    As far as I know, all gun shows across the US have to do the call in "yellow sheet" and be approved on all guns, unless they were made before 1898. That's not saying you can't do plenty of cash F2F transactions with individuals at gun shows. To me, that's all I go for because I don't like records showing my personal stuff.

    If you don't want a paper trail of what you have, hit your local classifieds and Armslist.com private sales for your state and surrounding states, depending on how serious you are about building an untraceable collection and how far you want to travel.

    Honestly, when they started keeping tabs that they said they weren't keeping tabs on through dealers I ended up selling every gun I owned that I had ever had to run the paperwork on to buy. I sold most of them at a loss to dealers, just for the fact to have receipts showing I had passed them back on to an FFL dealer and they were no longer in my possesion.

    Take it however you want to. This is coming from someone that is part owner of a pawnshop and is in very close with more than a few FFL dealers and Class II manufacturers.
    your anecdotal exposition are are my exact reasons for concerns, Lucid. this is why i don't want the government to even know i might have anything like a firearm.... they just don't need to know

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    Mojo's Minions dominus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by formula73 View Post
    WTF, man? You realize that wasn't directed at you, right? I know you're not an anti gun nut.

    That said, WTF does the number of firearms you own have thing-f'ing-one to do with gun laws, or more specifically, FTF/private party sales? Personally, I don't see both sides of the argument. You're taking this in a political direction and ok, I'll bite: I see the Bill of Rights side of the argument. I refuse to pander to those who would water it down or take it away.
    My argument is how do you stop (or at least, slow down) felons from buying guns? Tattoo on their forehead?

    I somewhat like the solution in the state of Illinois. (Not counting Chicago.)

    FOID card. If you're legal to buy a firearm, you get a Firearms Owner Identity Card for $10. You show it whenever you buy a gun OR ammo.
    "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." Isaiah 13:16

    "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31:17-18


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    Mojo's Minions Bludave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you need a gun permit to buy a gun at a gun show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cranky-d View Post
    i live in NYC, and i don't want anybody... ESPECIALLY the government knowing i might have a (or multiple) firearm(s)



    very likey. i've been to montana a few times and i'm in love with the place.
    And posting that on a public forum is a good way to NOT LET THEM KNOW WHAT YOU ARE PLANNING TO DO!!!

    The only way you can buy a gun in NYC without papers is illegal period!

    Why don't you want them to know you own a gun??
    Last edited by Bludave; 12-31-2011 at 06:38 AM.
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