Perfect intonation + drop tuning: Is it just plain impossible?

[jrbowen81]

I'm sure this is a common problem, especially with 24.75" scale guitars, but is it at all possible to achieve perfect (if not at LEAST satisfactory) intonation when using low tunings? I don't have too much of an issue with the 1st thru 5th strings, but the 6th string is a bugger! Even after flipping the bridge saddle around on both of my guitars (both tune-o-matic equipped), I still don't have enough room to get it spot-on. It's SO close, but even if others don't notice it when I'm playing, it drives me NUTS just knowing that it's not right.

One thing with which I haven't experimented much is the height of the tailpiece. I know basically that it is there in order to achieve the proper downward angle across the bridge, but I'm sure it is at least a factor in overall intonation, and possibly string tension as well.

I'm open to any suggestions you guys may have that are experienced with these type of bridge/tailpiece/intonation dilemmas.

[jrbowen81]

Maybe I've been using the wrong string gauges as well? I'm currently using 11-56 which is labeled for tuning down 1 full step. I'm tuning down 1-1/2 steps, sometimes 2-1/2 steps on the low string, yet with certain adjustments they STILL feel a bit too rigid. What am I doing wrong? I've seen plenty of pros tuning this low on standard scale guitars & they seem to do fine.

[rumblebox]

i'm using 10.5's in drop B tuning with perfect intonation.

questions:
is your neck bowed up?
is your nut cut too high?
is your action just too high in general?

i'm asking, because if your action is too high your notes will go sharp when you press the strings.

[jrbowen81]

i'm using 10.5's in drop B tuning with perfect intonation.

questions:
is your neck bowed up?
is your nut cut too high?
is your action just too high in general?

i'm asking, because if your action is too high your notes will go sharp when you press the strings.

Yes, my action is very high on the bass side. I have it that way because it seems to be the only way to get the buzz out of the low strings. I wish I could set it lower, but I can't seem to on my LP or my Schecter. The fact that 1 is a carved-top and the other is a slab (like an SG) seems to present a challenge with this as well for some reason.

[jrbowen81]

i'm using 10.5's in drop B tuning with perfect intonation.

questions:
is your neck bowed up?
is your nut cut too high?
is your action just too high in general?

i'm asking, because if your action is too high your notes will go sharp when you press the strings.

I need to look into the nut height issue as well. At first I was thinking maybe the lower string slots were cut too DEEP on account of the buzzing, but I'm not sure. It's supposed to be a .020" gap between each string and the 1st fret, correct?

Also, I wonder if a standard 11-48 set would work better than 11-56 on these guitars since they are both stoptail? (I'm also tuning to C# standard and Drop B.)

[rumblebox]

sounds like either your neck is bowed the wrong way or you need a serious fret-leveling.

[the guy who invented fire]

Perfect intonation on a fretted instrument is impossible no matter what strings or tuning you are using...

[blueman335]

Perfect intonation on a fretted instrument is impossible no matter what strings or tuning you are using...

+1. We're used to hearing instruments slightly out of tune.

[jrbowen81]

I'll give a better reply later today when I have more time (instead of being late to work, lol) but I have the 6th string set at 7/64" above the 12h fret and the 1st string at 3/64". I'm not sure if that's outrageously high or not. To me, it's fairly playable, but not ideal. I see now how it could definitely be pulling sharp when I press down though. FWIW, I also checked the neck-bow by capo'ing the 1st fret & fretting the highest note while checking at the 7th with a .010" feeler gauge. Everything seems ok there.

[jrbowen81]

Perfect intonation on a fretted instrument is impossible no matter what strings or tuning you are using...

True.

[briggleman]

Perfect intonation on a fretted instrument is impossible no matter what strings or tuning you are using...

Really!!!!! You need to get out more.

Your general statement may be correct for a regular straight fretted guitar, however there are fretted instruments/guitars out there that do have Perfect intonation in respect to the shape and placement of the frets. However this little debate will serve the OP little if any help..... I just don't like all encompassing statements that have a general truth but do not apply to all.

[AudioWonderland]

Really!!!!! You need to get out more.

Your general statement may be correct for a regular straight fretted guitar, however there are fretted instruments/guitars out there that do have Perfect intonation in respect to the shape and placement of the frets. However this little debate will serve the OP little if any help..... I just don't like all encompassing statements that have a general truth but do not apply to all.

Then you wont last long on the net

[briggleman]

Then you wont last long on the net

I think I have already been on the Net too Long!

Even I was too general in my statement, It can be achieved in one or two keys as stated, and therefor possible, and yes, not for all... on a guitar that is.

Between Droopy Dog and Marvin the Martian, those are my two favorites!

[jrbowen81]

Really!!!!! You need to get out more.

Your general statement may be correct for a regular straight fretted guitar, however there are fretted instruments/guitars out there that do have Perfect intonation in respect to the shape and placement of the frets. However this little debate will serve the OP little if any help..... I just don't like all encompassing statements that have a general truth but do not apply to all.

I mean this all in good fun when I say this, but I couldn't help hearing Droopy Dog's voice when I was reading your post.

[Sruffie777]

Really!!!!! You need to get out more.

Be careful DNFTT. Why should he get out more he is getting all he wants here.

[briggleman]

Be careful DNFTT. Why should he get out more he is getting all he wants here.

I ALWAYS give TGWIF grief..... just for fun. But the DNFTT statement in regards to TGWIF or Myself I do not understand? Trolls....no way!

TGWIF has a lot of knowledge and tries to be helpful but in a very abrupt way..... which is why I respond to his posts the way I do.... it eventually gets him to explain a little bit better... when he bites!

Droopy Dog always gets his way!

[jrbowen81]

sounds like either your neck is bowed the wrong way or you need a serious fret-leveling.

It very well could be the frets, although if it is, then they are all too high on the bass side by approximately the same amount. Haha. Seriously though, that's the only side that buzzes for me.

[rumblebox]

it can get as close as a tuner can detect though.

[Zhaggy]

If you want to experiment with string gauge, you might want to try the Zakk Wylde gauge which is 10,13,17,36,52,60 I use this on my Les Paul tuned to D. The high strings are jsut perfect for soloing and the low strings stiff enough for heavy riffing. I don't know how they act if tuned down even lower the low strings should be fine but the high string might get very floppy. Still worth trying. You can get this gauge from GHS, Dunlop (ZW signature) and DR (DTT series).

Also GHS makes this 11,14,18,36,52,70 which was low-ZW signature set. It was meant for things like AGCFAD or GGCFAD tunigs with very low A an G on the thickest string. That might be worth also taking a look at but witht hose you'll have to do something with the nut because the 70 string is VERY thick.

[P.A.Foholic]

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php