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Thread: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

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    Default Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Title says it all. Whether its plugins, vsts, or daws, its so easy to obtain software illegally.

    Let's not assume that "you just shouldn't do it." People are going to do it.

    What makes the most sense for when someone should make the purchase? After a try-before-you-buy period of 30 days? Once they make a profit using the software?

    Morally, financially, practically, what is the best way to navigate these waters?

    Share thoughts, and go!


    EDIT: Please don't get mad at me, as a recording engineer I get asked this question about once a month and I just want some other views. I own my software legitimately. This discussion should have an element of fun in it, even if we grill each other about our answers
    Last edited by alex1fly; 04-10-2012 at 10:15 AM.
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    John Mayer's Mankini ImmortalSix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Never.

    Software is a product, and should be paid for regardless of how easy it is to steal.

    Character is how you act when nobody is watching.
    my vinyl record collection | updated 22 April 2013

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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalSix View Post
    Never.

    Software is a product, and should be paid for regardless of how easy it is to steal.

    Character is how you act when nobody is watching.
    So you would pay $1000 for a plug-in before using it?
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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Hard questions here... its kind of like going to Guitar Center to try amps before you buy; that is, unless the company offers a demo or a trial of its software.
    Quote Originally Posted by crusty philtrum View Post
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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by alex1fly View Post
    So you would pay $1000 for a plug-in before using it?
    Nope. Wouldn't pay $1000 for one after trying it either. If a plugin is that expensive, I just avoid it.

    However, if you are looking at something that costs that much, its gonna be something with a proven track record. You can easily find out if it will do what you want it to do, before buying.

    So, stealing is never OK.
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    We want to listen to music while we mow the lawn.

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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by alex1fly View Post
    Hard questions here...
    I don't think it's hard at all. It's never OK to pirate software. This:

    Let's not assume that "you just shouldn't do it." People are going to do it.
    is a bad assumption and terrible, terrible logic.

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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by alex1fly View Post
    What makes the most sense for when someone should make the purchase? After a try-before-you-buy period of 30 days?

    Purchase the software in accordance with the terms and conditions agreed upon before downloading.
    KILLING THREADS SINCE 2007

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    Mojo's Minions Andrew Lamprecht's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    I don't use software so I don't know anything about it... I don't download music illegally either... all my stuff is on cds..... I have a lot of the concerts I really like on DVD... so yeah...
    Henry David Thoreau - "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."

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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    this is like trying to justify a drinking problem
    Enter the Dankatorium

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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by alex1fly View Post
    So you would pay $1000 for a plug-in before using it?
    If they don't offer a trial don't buy.

    If you have a real problem with the way that companies charge for software then you should look into Opensource options. Open source people tend to be even more strict about their licensing, a lot of people who go their just because of cost end up unhappy.

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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by alex1fly View Post
    So you would pay $1000 for a plug-in before using it?
    Well, first the premise is that I would pay $1000 for a plugin. Which is like asking me if I would buy a Bugatti without test driving it - and my answer is "no, because the price of it is 2 orders of magnitude higher than what I could afford."

    Also, and this is a bit off point, if a plugin author doesn't have a trial policy, then chances are they aren't going to sell much of their product / they have a marketing / sales problem - but that's just my opinion on an example and not very relevant to discussion.

    My real message is that I believe in intellectual property, and I love paying for things like music and software because I have written both, and it's real work, which takes real time, and involves overheads that cost real money.

    Also, if it's a good product, paying for it encourages the author to do more work like that - which I want.

    From my October 2009 post:

    My buddy Dan asked me the other day, and I paraphrase, "How many of these albums that you're critiquing are you actually buying, because I've spent at least 50 bucks on music in the past month, and I don't know if I can keep it up. I'm enjoying it though."

    The answer --- almost all of it. As I have aged (shut up, you're young too), art has become more important to me, and supporting it has become more important to me. What a lot of people don't understand, is that I don't buy music to put artists in fancy cars --- I do it to encourage the artists to make a next album. Say you're in a band and you release an album. You press 100,000 copies of the thing, and 37 copies sell. Are you going to make a next album? Nope, because you're going to be too busy flipping burgers to pay off the 99,963 albums you pressed and didn't sell.

    The only way to get a next album, a tour, a new single, whatever out of an artist you love, is to buy their album right now. Putting their name in your Facebook profile under "Favorite Music" or telling your friends that you give them "mad props" isn't going to be enough to encourage them. I have tried to pay my rent with mad props before --- not recommended.



    Think of an album like this --- ~5 guys work on it for 2 years. How much dough do you pull in in a year? Multiply that by 5, then multiply that by 2 (also known as multiplying by 10, but my sister reads this blog and I didn't want to confuse her) and write the number down on a piece of paper. The part of the work that they sell to the consumer, you, costs $9.99. For something 5 people (usually twice that, production) worked on for 2 years. Think about it, think think about it.

    I have a buck or two to spare, and when I think about what's important to me, music ranks in the top 10. When you think about how much money it is, try and compare it to something you spend just as much money on but don't love --- e.g. toll roads or dry-cleaning. What are you going to remember 5 years from now?

    Also, artists change over time --- imagine if Aerosmith had called it quits after "Toys in the Attic," before you were born. The most exciting thing about music to me is the dynamicism (please don't Google that, I used it improperly) --- how subject matter changes and how the writing changes --- how many times have you seen an artist come out with a head-bobbin' album full of love songs, then drop a brooding masterpiece of break-up songs 2 years later? I've seen it a lot, and I love it. You get the point --- [/soapbox].
    my vinyl record collection | updated 22 April 2013

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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    So, your question is when is stealing justified and when is it not? Cuz, ya know, people are just gonna steal no matter what, so because we cannot catch them all, we should just change our ideas of when it is OK and when it is not.

    What good could possibly come of this thread?
    Last edited by ItsaBass; 04-12-2012 at 12:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    time for a thread jack
    Lets talk about Murder. Cold blooded. You know when you go out, with malice in your heart, hunt someone down, kidnap them, cut them up, and eat them with fava beans. When is it OK?

    Let's not assume that "you just shouldn't do it." People are going to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
    a "career" of playing sold-out bedroom shows to the posters on my wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    whats becoming of this generation
    We want to listen to music while we mow the lawn.

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    John Mayer's Mankini ImmortalSix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    I understand the cases where the line is grey - like when something is not available for purchase.

    I have downloaded .zip files of EPs from super small bands that only released them as CDs at live shows 9 years ago or something. I assume the artists would not have given the EP away for free (OK, maybe they would have, not a great example ) but
    they weren't going to get any money from me anyhow - they don't have the product for sale, and there is no way for me to buy it from besides going back in time and traveling across the country and buying a CD

    I just want you to know that I do understand that there are grey areas.

    But software is rarely, rarely in a grey area.

    Supply and demand dictates that most products that people want are...for sale / available.

    This is especially true with non-physical inventory.
    my vinyl record collection | updated 22 April 2013

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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalSix View Post

    I just want you to know that I do understand that there are grey areas.

    But software is rarely, rarely in a grey area.

    Supply and demand dictates that most products that people want are...for sale / available.

    This is especially true with non-physical inventory.
    but what about the fava beans?
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
    a "career" of playing sold-out bedroom shows to the posters on my wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    whats becoming of this generation
    We want to listen to music while we mow the lawn.

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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    a true story of a friend of mine going through the same ordeal:

    Guy bought an mbox, which comes with pro tools. He registered his copy and serial #. Someone stole his computer that he had it installed on and the disk but left the mbox. He bought a new computer. With receipt and serial code in hand, he calls avid requesting a replacement disk, even willing to pay a nominal fee for the material and shipping. They wont oblige. Says he has to repurchase the software at full price...

    He downloaded it "illegally" and used his key code from the original purchase. Issue resolved. Would any of you have done any different?
    Beer me!
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    Mojo's Minions GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Years ago I lost the windows disk that came with my computer. The disk case had my serial number on it. I had an HDD crash and needed to get everything back up and running. Called MS, and they wouldn't provide me with another disk, so I downloaded it.

    My argument is that if you've purchased software once, that should allow you to continue to use the software for your lifetime. I feel the same way about music. You shouldn't have to purchase a CD, DVD, and MP3 of the same song. I have no issue downloading or ripping an album that I've purchased to use on an MP3 player . . . just as I don't have an issue with making a mixed tape from CDs I've got laying around.

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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reload in 5 View Post
    time for a thread jack
    Lets talk about Murder. Cold blooded. You know when you go out, with malice in your heart, hunt someone down, kidnap them, cut them up, and eat them with fava beans. When is it OK?

    Let's not assume that "you just shouldn't do it." People are going to do it.
    I submit to you a few legal options:

    Beautification defense - gathering up the homeless and eating them benefits society as a whole by reducing the number of panhandlers.
    Kevorkian defense - the emo kid was sad, so I ate him.
    Stand Your Ground defense - Had to eat the body to hide the evidence . . . you see what they're doing with that guy who killed Treyvon?
    1% defense - Rich people taste irresistibly better than 99% of the other people walking around.

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    John Mayer's Mankini ImmortalSix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by woemoejack View Post
    a true story of a friend of mine going through the same ordeal:

    Guy bought an mbox, which comes with pro tools. He registered his copy and serial #. Someone stole his computer that he had it installed on and the disk but left the mbox. He bought a new computer. With receipt and serial code in hand, he calls avid requesting a replacement disk, even willing to pay a nominal fee for the material and shipping. They wont oblige. Says he has to repurchase the software at full price...

    He downloaded it "illegally" and used his key code from the original purchase. Issue resolved. Would any of you have done any different?
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    Years ago I lost the windows disk that came with my computer. The disk case had my serial number on it. I had an HDD crash and needed to get everything back up and running. Called MS, and they wouldn't provide me with another disk, so I downloaded it.

    My argument is that if you've purchased software once, that should allow you to continue to use the software for your lifetime. I feel the same way about music. You shouldn't have to purchase a CD, DVD, and MP3 of the same song. I have no issue downloading or ripping an album that I've purchased to use on an MP3 player . . . just as I don't have an issue with making a mixed tape from CDs I've got laying around.
    Yeah, I am with you guys.

    Although I did pay full price for Michael Jackson's "Thriller" and Barenaked Ladies' "Stunt" on Amazon MP3 after previously buying them (on vinyl and CD, respectively) because I love both of those albums and don't even know where to start for downloading illegal music.
    my vinyl record collection | updated 22 April 2013

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    Mojo's Minions GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirated Software - when is it okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalSix View Post
    because I love both of those albums and don't even know where to start for downloading illegal music.
    Seriously? Illegal downloads are just slightly harder to find than hard core porn and lolcatz.

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