Pirated Software - when is it okay?

[uOpt]

Here's a good example: Would you sink 200 bucks on a say...a genuine ProTools, than purchasing a pirated copy for 3 dollars and allocate the rest 197 dollars on other recording gear you need, mic, pre amps, cables, etc? Get real. You can be all altruistic here but I bet you won't be in real situation.

Besides, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and the likes are too rich anyway, so isn't it time for average people like us to enjoy the piece of the pie and get away with murder? If I have 100 dollars to spend on software, I would opt for a pirated copy instead and donate the rest to needy people, than making another Bill Gates 100 dollar richer.

But recording software and recording plugins are not written by Microsoft. With the exception of Pro Tools (which is very cheap for what it offers anyway) the developers there are regular business that have to make ends meet with the money from the software.

Unlike money spend on music recordings money spent on software actually arrives to a major part at the people making it.

[Quencho092]

I agree totally with I6, and I do miss the days when there were a couple of bands that I was really into and physically bought their albums and threw them into my old school 3 cd changer stereo to kick back and listen to my favorite tunes.

I just think that it's a culture thing more than a violation of transaction (it still is a violation though). This is a perfect opportunity for bands to simply focus on their local base, and dig deeper to find relevance or just go extinct and stop polluting the air with overpromoted, overpriced trash. Classical musicians of the past like Schubert had to couch surf and live at friends' houses, only getting credit posthumously.....

[exnihilo]

White Room.

cg

[Reload in 5]

If you lose your product key to windows but have the install disk, you still can't ever install it again. To use your car analogy . . . it's like losing your car keys and going to the dealership and having them tell you that you need to buy a new car. Ridiculous. Nobody would stand for that if a dealer told them that, why should we accept it because software companies are telling us that?

No. When you buy windows the license code represents the product. Your PC is a separate product. Both purchased from different people, even if bought together.
See your PC is the car, and windows is the motor (what makes it run).
So you buy a classic car from a person, and have a custom motor put in. If the motor is stolen, you cant just get a new free one because you still have the car.
If the entire car is stolen (including the motor) and you buy a new car you dont get a new free motor.

[GuitarStv]

No. When you buy windows the license code represents the product. Your PC is a separate product. Both purchased from different people, even if bought together.
See your PC is the car, and windows is the motor (what makes it run).
So you buy a classic car from a person, and have a custom motor put in. If the motor is stolen, you cant just get a new free one because you still have the car.
If the entire car is stolen (including the motor) and you buy a new car you dont get a new free motor.

In your example above you're comparing something with no value whatsoever (a product key) to something of very high value (a motor). This really doesn't make much sense. Here's my reasoning:

Windows Key = Car Key . . . you need the key to be able to use the software/car, the key itself is worth very little other than to activate the car/software.
Windows Software = Car . . . you need the software to get around on the internet and use programs / you need the car to drive on the road. The cost of the software is in development and the cost of the car is in manufacturing, but they both have intrinsic value, so I think this comparison is valid.

If you lose your car keys you don't have to buy a new car. Any decent locksmith can make you a new key, and your car manufacturer has no say in the matter.

If you lose a software key, you are required to buy a whole new piece of software.

When you buy software you don't pay for the physical media (A CD or DVD can be burned for less than a dollar to the retailer), you pay for the research/development/intellectual property associated with the program. Once I've paid to use the program, I think I should be free to use the program forever . . . just as once you pay to buy a car, you should be free to do whatever you want with the car (drive it, sit it on your lawn, chop it up and part it out, whatever).

[sosomething]

It makes me feel great that you are fighting for America's freedom and proclaiming a socialist idealogy.

I hope ur kidding.

That's not socialism. That's communism.

Understanding the difference is going to be key in preventing yourself from being manipulated emotionally this fall.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[saladin]

always

[Kam]

That's not socialism. That's communism.

Understanding the difference is going to be key in preventing yourself from being manipulated emotionally this fall.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

God damn, you're on fire in this thread.

[ratherdashing]

In your example above you're comparing something with no value whatsoever (a product key) to something of very high value (a motor). This really doesn't make much sense. Here's my reasoning:

Windows Key = Car Key . . . you need the key to be able to use the software/car, the key itself is worth very little other than to activate the car/software.
Windows Software = Car . . . you need the software to get around on the internet and use programs / you need the car to drive on the road. The cost of the software is in development and the cost of the car is in manufacturing, but they both have intrinsic value, so I think this comparison is valid.

If you lose your car keys you don't have to buy a new car. Any decent locksmith can make you a new key, and your car manufacturer has no say in the matter.

If you lose a software key, you are required to buy a whole new piece of software.

When you buy software you don't pay for the physical media (A CD or DVD can be burned for less than a dollar to the retailer), you pay for the research/development/intellectual property associated with the program. Once I've paid to use the program, I think I should be free to use the program forever . . . just as once you pay to buy a car, you should be free to do whatever you want with the car (drive it, sit it on your lawn, chop it up and part it out, whatever).

The software key has plenty of value. It's the most valuable aspect of your software purchase, in fact, because it represents your right to own the software. How can you say that it has no value when you've already clearly demonstrated that without it, the product is useless?

A better car analogy would be that you lost the registration and bill of sale, which prove that you own the car and that you're legally entitled to drive it. If you then lose your keys (analogous to having to reinstall Windows) the locksmith won't issue you new ones because you can't prove you own the car.

In your situation, I do think Microsoft didn't do a very good job of helping you recover your product key (their system for corporate licenses is much better and makes more sense) but you have to accept some responsibility for losing that key. They tell you again and again to keep it in a safe place, and they have good reason to: that key IS your software license. That key is what you paid for; not the CD nor any copy of it.

[Bludave]

The way I look at it is if you are profiting from said software you are in violation of copyright. End of story!

[Ball&Chain]

I have downloaded .zip files of EPs from super small bands that only released them as CDs at live shows 9 years ago or something. I assume the artists would not have given the EP away for free (OK, maybe they would have, not a great example ) but
they weren't going to get any money from me anyhow - they don't have the product for sale, and there is no way for me to buy it from besides going back in time and traveling across the country and buying a CD

Now this is just rediculous. One would think if you could go back in time in order to purchase something that one could just go back in time straight to the location in question, thereby bypassing the need for travel afterward. I believe that theory is proven in the Bill & Ted Movies. Dont even mention back to the future. It doesnt prove my point.

[stratobastard]

The software key has plenty of value. It's the most valuable aspect of your software purchase, in fact, because it represents your right to own the software. How can you say that it has no value when you've already clearly demonstrated that without it, the product is useless?

A better car analogy would be that you lost the registration and bill of sale, which prove that you own the car and that you're legally entitled to drive it. If you then lose your keys (analogous to having to reinstall Windows) the locksmith won't issue you new ones because you can't prove you own the car.

In your situation, I do think Microsoft didn't do a very good job of helping you recover your product key (their system for corporate licenses is much better and makes more sense) but you have to accept some responsibility for losing that key. They tell you again and again to keep it in a safe place, and they have good reason to: that key IS your software license. That key is what you paid for; not the CD nor any copy of it.

Isn't that what product registries are for?

[Kam]

It's not very nice to see that this thread has largely descended into personal insults either, so i'm out.

It's the hallmark of a poorly thought out stance when a person cannot support their position with logical argument but instead fires off a few "it is because it is" type arguments and then when that doesn't work they start with the insults. A sort of "This is pointless because if i can't construct a rational argument to support my position then i'll never get through to you anyway (duh!)" dressed as "You don't understand, and you never will because you're a [insult]".

It would be amusing to mark some essays on ethics and morality from you guys: D-, try harder.

Come on, man. You can do better than this.

[LesStrat]

I certainly didn't try to say both of those things were the same, but merely that the mother of starving children scenario is a example of where stealing IS NOT morally wrong. The overall point being that it is false to declare that stealing is universally wrong in all circumstances.

Stealing remains immoral. It just became understandable in that scenario. If you believed it necessary to steal and you do so, you still have the obligation to repay the debt when you're able.

Deeming something as necessary does not change the nature of the act.

[formula73]

It makes me feel great that you are fighting for America's freedom and proclaiming a socialist idealogy.

I hope ur kidding.

Rest easy. Yes, I'm kidding. I own 30 guitars and 4 cars.

[verbotenco]

It's not very nice to see that this thread has largely descended into personal insults either, so i'm out.

It's the hallmark of a poorly thought out stance when a person cannot support their position with logical argument but instead fires off a few "it is because it is" type arguments and then when that doesn't work they start with the insults. A sort of "This is pointless because if i can't construct a rational argument to support my position then i'll never get through to you anyway (duh!)" dressed as "You don't understand, and you never will because you're a [insult]".

It would be amusing to mark some essays on ethics and morality from you guys: D-, try harder.

Yeah I have come across that several times here. Many people here treat this forum like a cult or like they belong to certain elite group of members whose opinions rule the forum. So when I post something that doesn't sound nice or doesn't go along with what their 'moral values' (but honestly) they try to run me down. Like my thread about 'hypocrisy and cursing', and my comment on the guy with Floyd Rose equipped LP.

It's actually amusing to see some people take this forum conversation very seriously, like a religion. It's just virtual after all.

[verbotenco]

If you don't buy pirated software you are missing out on huge opportunities to save tons of money without making other people's life miserable!

[GuitarStv]

The software key has plenty of value. It's the most valuable aspect of your software purchase, in fact, because it represents your right to own the software. How can you say that it has no value when you've already clearly demonstrated that without it, the product is useless?

A better car analogy would be that you lost the registration and bill of sale, which prove that you own the car and that you're legally entitled to drive it. If you then lose your keys (analogous to having to reinstall Windows) the locksmith won't issue you new ones because you can't prove you own the car.

In your situation, I do think Microsoft didn't do a very good job of helping you recover your product key (their system for corporate licenses is much better and makes more sense) but you have to accept some responsibility for losing that key. They tell you again and again to keep it in a safe place, and they have good reason to: that key IS your software license. That key is what you paid for; not the CD nor any copy of it.

Fair enough. I get where you're coming from with the bill of sale thing . . . MS can't verify that I bought the software and thus wouldn't let me use the software that I purchased. Losing the key was my mistake. I understand that. All that I'm saying is . . . to me, it's not stealing if you already own the software. If I can replace the software that I legally own but lost the key for, at no cost to Microsoft or anyone else then I don't see the harm being done. As a software developer myself, this case (to answer the thread title) is one of the very few when it's morally OK to use pirated software.

[sosomething]

If you don't buy pirated software you are missing out on huge opportunities to save tons of money without making other people's life miserable!

I have to comment on something, because you've mentioned it a few times now.

If you're buying pirated software, who is the sucker here?

[sosomething]

Gross, grumpy.

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