What's the thing with "vintage" pickups?

[cokekolev]

I mean, we've moved on. The PAF was invented 57 years ago. Those pickups were made in a time when people didn't know much about sound. Now we have much better amps, tons of effect pedals, an enormous choice of speakers and cabinets, very user-friendly recording software etc.
Why are 9 out of 10 pickup makers just trying to copy a 60 year-old design that wasn't made with the current gear in mind?
Who says vintage is better? Personally I prefer a brand new car to, let's say a Ford made in 1908. Why not make pickups that are suited for today's needs?

[Jocelyn]

Well.. this is my opinion . Leo Fender, Seth Lover and others got it right. Sure ther are better designs today. not all those vintage designs are great sounding. IMO again the great designs have prolonged. Thats why we still play the classic Strats, Teles and LPs ext or their variation.

[AlexR]

The whole guitar industry is based on things being more valuable as they get old. But a lot of things in life move in cycles anyway, and 'progress' certainly doesn't equate to 'better'.

Is this post simply to stir up trouble, or don't you realise that what is 'best' for you isn't so for others?

[Jocelyn]

examples of newer designs are Parallel Axis, Rails ext.
As I said in the previous post I believe that Mr. Fender. Seth Lover ext got it right. I mean Leos Single coil design is used as a base for so many other single coil. So is Seth Lover Humbucker design. You want newer modern designs then that would be single coil sized rail pickups, single coiled sized humbuckers ext. And for humbuckers something like AIR buckers and Hex screws, allen screws ext Parallel axis ext . All Variations of the basic design . Some like the tone of those some dont. Some like High outpuit some dont each his own

[cokekolev]

The whole guitar industry is based on things being more valuable as they get old. But a lot of things in life move in cycles anyway, and 'progress' certainly doesn't equate to 'better'.

Is this post simply to stir up trouble, or don't you realise that what is 'best' for you isn't so for others?

No, it's not a 'hater' post. I'm just wondering why 'vintage'-type pickups are preferred by most pickup makers, not necessarily guitar players.
I'm just searching for the ultimate tone, like most of you.

[cokekolev]

examples of newer designs are Parallel Axis, Rails ext.

Yes, but those are 30 years old as well.

[AlexR]

Maybe they lucked onto the best for most players right from the get-go, or maybe the vintage tones have become so iconic that it is well ingrained for most of us to search for these.

Also, once you start to look closer, amps haven't really changed that much. They still use valves, paper coned speakers and heavy/bulky transformers. They get more drive nowadays, thats about the only main change.

[Jocelyn]

Yes, but those are 30 years old as well.

Sure they may be 30 years old but, what kind of tone you are looking for. I mean most players want a clear tone even when they play High gain. Then there are other but even they too will be 30 years plus like Actives and then you have lace sensors. ext

[cokekolev]

Sure they may be 30 years old but, what kind of tone you are looking for. I mean most players want a clear tone even when they play High gain. Then there are other but even they too will be 30 years plus like Actives and then you have lace sensors. ext

I didn't say I don't like vintage-type pickups. I'm just wondering why the pickup industry isn't focusing toward innovation.

[Ashurbanipal]

Partly because so much of our favourite music was played on gear made in the 50s and 60s, so people look for that when they're shopping for guitars, amps, or pups. In the 70s, everyone was into brass and beginning to get into replacement pups (Super D, anyone?). In the 80s, it was active pups, Floyd Rose etc., the stuff you find on shredder guitars. In the 90s and up to now, retro is back.

It's all dictated by people's musical wants. Back when electric guitars began, there were a lot of hoops to jump through to get things 'right'; now we've been riding a plateau because our technical needs as musicians can be easily met without the requirement for such drastic innovations. Plus, the whole idea of the guitar hero (the guy who's tone you're chasing) has changed - people look back, not so much around themselves. The way media have changed (internet) has also made an impact in the way we consume information and thereby inform our choices about gear.

Sometimes it's due to cost, like SD's Zephyr pups, which you may argue are innovative on the basis of their use of silver wire. It's expensive stuff, and also no new EVH or Hendrix has come along and changed guitar playing using these pups.

There is innovation happening, but it's more of a fringe thing now, where small builders experiment with ideas and put them into guitars, and only adventurous players seek them out. I'm thinking of a luthier like Teuffel. There's a five part doco about him on the Gourmet Guitar channel on YouTube, where he talks about this and his view of his guitars as a blank canvas, as they're not burdened with certain socio-cultural associations, which people who buy his guitars find to be one point of attraction.

In the end 'vintage' is just a word - a pup is a pup regardless. It's all about the context in which the object has gained particular meaning.

[the guy who invented fire]

I mean, we've moved on. The PAF was invented 57 years ago. Those pickups were made in a time when people didn't know much about sound. Now we have much better amps, tons of effect pedals, an enormous choice of speakers and cabinets, very user-friendly recording software etc.
Why are 9 out of 10 pickup makers just trying to copy a 60 year-old design that wasn't made with the current gear in mind?
Who says vintage is better? Personally I prefer a brand new car to, let's say a Ford made in 1908. Why not make pickups that are suited for today's needs?

There are easily as many modern designs as there are PAF copies out there so whats your issue??

For me and for my needs PAF work better than any other humbucking pickup, it's the sound I want but then again I play with vintage or vintage style guitars, vintage style single coils, vintage or vintage style amps and even vintage style pedals.

While we're at it I'd MUCH rather drive a 1957 Ford than a 2012 Ford!

[the guy who invented fire]

I didn't say I don't like vintage-type pickups. I'm just wondering why the pickup industry isn't focusing toward innovation.

I see innovation all the time...Duncan has several new ideas that have recently hit the market...Bill Lawrence is ALWAYS trying to improve things...DiMarzio has quite a few new ideas on the scene...there are the new Rail Hammer pickups...just look around and you'll see it if you open your eyes.

That said, yes there are a LOT of PAF clones, Pat # clones, 50's Strat and Tele pickups, 60's style Jazzmaster and jag pickups, even older than that with the Charlie Christian, Stapole Alnico pickups, P-90's, Gold Foil clones, etc...

Why??

Because these guys are IN BUSINESS and those pickups, like it or not are what a LOT of people want.

If your customer base is asking for another PAF clone then you better give them one or someone else will.

[jtougas]

Well, look at how widely used Bartolini guitar pickups are.

Not their bass pickups (which are built on the same principles), but their guitar pups.

They're still incredibly innovative, have an incredibly good tone, but they're also incredibly rare in the wild.

[ItsaBass]

People buy them, so they are made. If one doesn't want them, there are other more modern options. But the way I see it, pickups as they've been made for a long time simply work. Just like cars having four wheels, pickups are pretty much always going to be magnets and wire. Not much that needs to (or can) be changed.

What groundbreaking, modern pickup designs do you have in mind that you'd like to see made?

[cokekolev]

People buy them, so they are made. If one doesn't want them, there are other more modern options. But the way I see it, pickups as they've been made for a long time simply work. Just like cars with having wheels, pickups are pretty much always going to be magnets and wire. Not much that needs to be changed.

What groundbreaking, modern pickup designs do you have in mind that you'd like to see made?

I don't know what designs I have in mind, I'm not a pickup winder. I'm just wondering and asking a question.

[ItsaBass]

I don't know what designs I have in mind, I'm not a pickup winder. I'm just wondering and asking a question.

What is it that you want? We've moved on, you say. How? How are "today's needs" in a pickup different than yesterday's needs?

The way I see it, all a pickup "needs" to do is convert what you are playing into a signal that can be used. That has never changed, and never will. Magnets and wire remain a reasonable way to do that. What else do you think ought to be used?

[cokekolev]

What is it that you want? We've moved on, you say. How? How are "today's needs" in a pickup different than yesterday's needs?

Amps are different and better etc. Music genres have evolved from 12 bar blues,...

[the guy who invented fire]

Amps are different and better etc. Music genres have evolved from 12 bar blues,...

What makes todays amps "better" than old amps?

There are only a handfull of amps that have been made past about 1974 I'd even bother with...

I have owned dozens of amps over the years everything from old to reissue to new...single channel, non master volume, high gain channel switching, tube, solid state, digital, etc and FWIW, I run a stereo amp set up...one of the amps is a 1962 Fender and the other is a hand made copy of a 1950 Fender...

Also while we're at it what does music evolving mast a 12 bar blues have to do with anything???

Billy Gibbons is one of the worlds greatest 12 bar blues players and he plays thru a very complex, high tech rig that involves a midi preamp, rack power amps, digital programmable graphic EQ's and a raft of other high tech stuff.

[ItsaBass]

Amps are different and better etc. Music genres have evolved from 12 bar blues,...

Amps are amps (and "better" is highly subjective word to use when talking about them, unless you first name your criteria). They take an input and make it louder. A pickup from today will work on an amp from back then and vise versa. So, again, what is it that you think ought to be different? How can pickups be made to better suit "today's needs?"

Although the 12 bar blues comment is irrelevant, that type of music was one of many musical genres that existed back then. And I don't think music has changed much at all...not in the musical sense, anyhow. Just in the way that it is listened to and bought/sold.

[chasebeavers]

Go find a fifties Fender or Gibson, play it through a tweed amp. Then come back and tell us what sounds "better"...