Replacing Gibson Classic 57's

[Archer_of_Fish]

I think 57 classics are excellent. My favourite Gibson pickup in their current lineup by a wide margin

[Gypsyblue]

Do you know the value of your volume pots and tone pots? If they're 300K instead of 500K you're losing some treble and clarity. I liked the 57 Classics a lot more after changing to 500K pots.

The first thing to do with a new, NON Historic/VOS Les Paul in my opinion is to replace the 300k pots with 500k pots...this will open up the sound and make them more lively as well as add clarity which is a good thing with almost any humbucking pickup!

As for the magnet swap I will say this...I have magnet swapped 57 Classics twice and both times I liked the results better but both times it made them warmer and added a bit of midrange to them so for more clarity you might be better off with the stock magnets.

Try the pots first, if that leaves you cold on the 57 Classics still then report back and let's look at pickups!

Do this before swapping out pickups. If it's only the bridge humbucker you're unhappy with then just change the bridge humbucker pots to 500K. I'd want all four pots to be 500K first before I started changing pickups. In the past, I haven't been happy with the quality of Gibson pots. I use CTS.

[indie folk guy]

I have a few options

Lollar Imperials, Fralin Pure PAF's, SD Antiquity (JB/Jazz set or regular Antiquity humbuckers).

I am building a 335 union jack guitar and it has a set of chrome mount with pearloid insert low wind imperials from lollar. My Xaviere LP semi hollow copy has a set of Fralin Pure PAF's in it (stock winds). I can't say enough great things about them. With that said it wasn't easy not investing in the Antiquities (both sets) are amazing.

I'd also suggest redoing the wiring I hate current production gibsons for a reason. On a similar note a polished bone nut would be a worthwhile upgrade to the instrument.

[BluesDisciple]

In a nutshell ... Simplify the problem as much as you can before trading out a pair of p/u that cost a couple of hundred dollars. Make the answer If an answer isn't really apparent, consider the outlier, the unusual, before spending more cash. A pot runs from $2-20, a cap from $5-65+ for the boutique, but it could be as simple as a grounding issue that you don't easily see. That beats chasing pickups at a c-note a piece. If none of this helps then see about new pickups.

It doesn't matter how many guitars a guy runs X brand of something in. If it isn't working for you, change it. Including the pickup. Someone else's answer may not be the solution to your problem. That comes from 22 years of research and laboratory work. The answer may not be within the decision matrix.

[blueman335]

- the 57 Classics are awesome pickups. I really like them and think they are as good as any boutique pickup made.

- I would be surprised if Seth Lovers or BB Pros don't do it for you. Fralin has a nice classic PAF humbucker and Suhr has the Aldrich. I have tried both of those and they're great.

Agree on the second point. On the first I don't think '57's are in the same class as the other ones you mentioned. For recent manufacture Gibson HB's, I get the best tones from the numbered BB's.

[The Toes]

Thanks for the responses everyone, I'm going to take the advice of having the pots upgraded and see if that helps. I have a gig coming up which would allow me to really test drive the stock pickups with the new pots.

[blueman335]

Thanks for the responses everyone, I'm going to take the advice of having the pots upgraded and see if that helps. I have a gig coming up which would allow me to really test drive the stock pickups with the new pots.

Good, do it one step at a time. If you have 300K's on the neck PU, you're going to have a dark, muffled sound. 500K's will make a big difference and allow you to EQ your amp differently.

[The Toes]

A couple of more questions if you don't mind, when I change to 500k pots is there a cap recomendation/brand? Since Bourns has been mentioned, do they offer other pots besides the low friction EVH branded models?

[Gypsyblue]

Joe Gore posted a thread here that seemed to debunk the "boutique is better" thing when it comes to capacitors. I'd use a .02 Sprague Orange Drop. I wouldn't use a cheapie ceramic disc cap, for aesthetic reasons if for no other.

[blueman335]

I wouldn't use a cheapie ceramic disc cap, for aesthetic reasons if for no other.

And who would be seeing the caps anyways? On breaks at gigs, do you take off the cover plate and show the audience the wiring harness?

[UberMetalDood]

Agree on the second point. On the first I don't think '57's are in the same class as the other ones you mentioned. For recent manufacture Gibson HB's, I get the best tones from the numbered BB's.

Ok you're entitled to your opinion. I have been using a BB3/57 Classic combo in my Les Pauls for some time now and I'm starting to notice that Burstbucker Pros outperform them. The BB pros are less muddy, less noisy, and handle gain better. My mistake with BB Pros before was using them in chambered Les Pauls. I made my judgements based on that, but now that my Les Pauls are all weight-relieved, I'm finding the BB Pros to be quite good.

That being said, I'm not 100% sure I'd prefer them over Seth Lovers, but I'd say they're up there on the high end. Just because they're stock Gibson pickups doesn't mean that they're easily replaceable. I feel the same way about Fender pickups now. The DH1 has been a fantastic pickup. I have compared it extensively to Duncans, Dimarzios and other brands and it has been superb.

I'd like to see Gibson offer a couple of more modern pickups, but I think they have the right recipes as they stand. Aren't they the original PAF manufacturer after all? There is 57' Classic comparison audio out there and I have yet to hear a pickup outperform it. I say show me the audio.

[The Toes]

So, I played the gig using the Les Paul, upgraded pots, stock 57 Classics,etc and was pretty happy with the results. There was definite improvement after the pots were upgraded but I'm still not satisfied with the overall clarity. Now, I have one friend who has heard and seen me play live since I started back in the early 80's and he was shocked when I said I still wanted to mess with my sound so this may just be a case of me being on a quest that I cannot finish.

To my ears, it seems the the Classic 57's are not defined enough and I would prefer more clarity, especially in the low end.

Any suggestions would be appreciated,

Thanks

[RayBarbeeMusic]

As others noted, start with 500k audio pots. Bourns, CTS, ALpha, whatever, but order a few and make SURE TO MEASURE THEM with a digital ohm meter and use ones that are actually 500k or more. I've seen CTS/Bourns pots that said "500k" on the case as low as 350k, brand new.

Tone cap mojo does not lie in the manufacture of the cap, but in the actual CAPACITANCE of the cap. I've found I like much smaller tone caps than stock, everyone I've made that change for does as well. Get a range: .0022uf, .0047uf, .01uf, .022uf, and a pair of aligator clips. Clip them into the pot, find the one you like, then solder it in.

[gibson175]

To my ears, it seems the the Classic 57's are not defined enough and I would prefer more clarity, especially in the low end.

Swap the magnets to alnico 5. If that doesn't work, then its time for a pickup swap.
Maybe a pair of 59's, or a Custom bridge and a 59 if you want more output. Plenty of definition there. The other great thing about 59's and customs is that thay accommodate all kinds of magnets and still sound good, so you have the option to further tweak your sound.

[Luke Duke]

The pots definitely help! For more defined lows from the regular lineup I'd definitely go with the Jazz, 59, or PG.....that said a switch to A5 in the a 57 classic really helps. I just don't like the inherent grittiness you get with Gibson pickups. That's just me. The jazz, in my opinion, has the best definition of the bunch.

If you want more definition and extended range for the bridge you might want to look at a C5.

Luke