Which ones

[arturocivit]

Hi there, good morning quick question, I plan to mod a les paul type guitar and I was looking for a pair of pups that will give me a broader tone from blues to modern rock, so I was thinking about the seymour duncans 59 and SH4, I'm kind of newbie about modifying a guitar electronics, so, not really sure, you guys know any other alternatives different than SD and in the same price range?

Thanks!

Arturo

EDIT: What about Gibson Burstbucker Pro Lead and Gibson Burstbucker Pro Rhythm?

[LtKojak]

There are a myriad of Duncan p'ups that would perfectly fill the bill.

However, i'm partial to either the Seth Lover set or the Pearly Gates set.

The '59n/JB is a classic, but I think you can do a lot better with the ones I've suggested.

HTH,

[dominus]

TB-5 Duncan Custom in the bridge.

[indie folk guy]

how much are you willing to spend?

Antiquities, Fralins (Pure PAF), Lollars (Imperials), etc would also be excellent choices.

If you are looking at run of the mill upgrades check into some of these:
59/Jazz neck (would be a custom shop pickup or DIY project) with 59/custom bridge
Seth Lovers
JB/Jazz set
DiMarzio 36th Anniversary PAF set

really there are a lot of options it just depends

[blueman335]

If you are looking at run of the mill upgrades check into some of these:
Seth Lovers
JB/Jazz set
DiMarzio 36th Anniversary PAF set

There's nothing 'run of the mill' about Seth's, which are one of the best PAF's you can buy. I've got all of the PU's you mentioned, and think Seth's are preferrable to Antiquities, as the aged A2's in Ant's have a very rounded high end, making it difficult to get enough bite or cut. I finally had to swap mags in my Ants, but haven't had to do that with any of my Seth's.

JB's are notoriously hit or miss in mahogany (there's been many posts about that here), especially LP's, and can fail in a major way ('ice pick spike' high end, and a flabby low end). While they work in some LP's, I can't in good conscience recommend them. There's PU's that have much better success rates in mahogany.

[indie folk guy]

Have you tried the Ant JB/Jazz set? Because it's a different beast from the traditional Antiquity humbucker. Your point of view just goes to show how many different beasts are available for a HB slot.

My point of run of the mill is that it is at standard pickup pricing (normal production dimarzios, duncans, and gibsons) ie NOT A BOUTIQUE OPTION. I have better humbuckers than Seth Lovers, not that they are BAD pickups.

and if you had read on I also said it DEPENDS!

Your argument about wood type is the dumbest thing I've ever read no two pieces of wood sound and respond alike so what difference does the species make? NONE!

You are stereotyping. Know what your instrument sounds like and how it responds and know what you are looking for in a pickup if you want a specific answer that solves your tonal issues/quest for great tone. This is like saying that Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, and Jeff Beck sound and play the same because they all played in the Yardbirds and they are all scrawny white guys lol

[blueman335]

Your argument about wood type is the dumbest thing I've ever read no two pieces of wood sound and respond alike so what difference does the species make? NONE!

Right, no two pieces of wood are identical, but certain types tend to fall within general tonal categories; there's websites by guitar makers that explain this for a number of species. Check some out. There are bright pieces of mahogany, but the majority are warm, so generalizations can be made. There will always be exceptions, but if you're a betting man...

As you spend more time here and read thousands of posts, you will run across horror stories of JB's in mahogany. Even guys who like JB's in bright woods have called them 'atrocious' in some mahogany guitars. CC's are usually too dark in mahogany, especially LP's, but are popular in bright woods. '59N's are notoriously bassy/boomy in LP's, JazzN's aren't. There are many examples to be found in these pages where wood species makes a big difference when paired with PU's. Read some before you start insulting people again.

[misterwhizzy]

Your argument about wood type is the dumbest thing I've ever read no two pieces of wood sound and respond alike so what difference does the species make? NONE!

Why so angry?

I tried the DD5 in my Les Paul, which is very close to a JB, and it really didn't work. The DD8 worked better, but it still was kind of ice picky and too high output. The Custom was a much better pickup, and the Custom 8 was (and still is) perfect.

I think the point blueman335 is trying to make is that based on a fairly large sample size--let's say at least a couple hundred--the consensus among forum members is that the JB works maybe half the time in mahogany guitars. Based on a completely unscientific basis, I think that number for the Custom and its derivatives is closer to eighty percent.

[Soulcrusher_X]

Les Paul TYPE. What's it made of? Is it the traditional mahogany/maple cap with rosewood or Ebony board? Personally, IME the JB works a little better with LPs that have an Ebony board and a little thicker of a maple cap. I used a JB in my LP Custom for a long time, and it's been one of my go-to pickups. I tried the same pickup in an LP Std with a rosewood board and it had the icepick and nasally tone that a lot of guys/gals complain about when the JB/LP combo goes wrong. On the other hand, the Distortion worked great in that Std, but was stiff as hell in the Custom.

I dont know if the Seths can do modern rock, but the Custom family and the PGs can probably do all of what you're looking for.

[GoldenVulture]

how much are you willing to spend?

Antiquities, Fralins (Pure PAF), Lollars (Imperials), etc would also be excellent choices.

If you are looking at run of the mill upgrades check into some of these:
59/Jazz neck (would be a custom shop pickup or DIY project) with 59/custom bridge
Seth Lovers
JB/Jazz set
DiMarzio 36th Anniversary PAF set

really there are a lot of options it just depends

I'm kind of newbie about modifying a guitar electronics, so, not really sure, you guys know any other alternatives different than SD and in the same price range?

[indie folk guy]

you never know how far people are willing to stretch their budget? and when you say SD I don't know if you include Antiquities in that price range or not. So I don't think it's an unfair question since there wasn't really a DOLLAR amount listed.

And I still think it's a stereotyping judgement to say that a said species of wood sounds similar or the same. I build guitars for a living, often guitars made from wood from the same tree don't even sound alike. It really just depends and there is no arguing that. So trying to argue by saying that out of a sample of 100 blanks they all sounded like **** is just a bunch of BS. SDUGF makes up a very small percentage of guitarists and techs that swap pickups so if half of the people here claim that the JB sucks is still half of what 5% of people that swap pickups?

If you buy the JB and don't like it right away SD offers an exchange policy, use it.

My points aren't to be insulting it's to debunk some of this bull crap being spread around. I build and repair guitars for a living. I work with hundreds of pickups and hundreds of pieces of wood on a daily basis. So while blueman is entitled to his opinions I am entitled to mine and given that information that we are talking about a hobbyist vs a professional I think my opinion ought to mean something too if not more.

My opinion isn't based on non sense online that I read in a forum where I actively participate it's based on actually using the products in different guitars that I've built or had customers bring me to work on.

Try using a JB and a Jazz there is good reason why it's Seymour's favorite set of humbuckers. And given the description the OP made it's pretty much the ultimate starting point for covering blues-modern rock. Likewise a set of DiMarzio 36th anniversary PAF pickups would also be able to cover the same ground, Pearly Gates could, a 59/jazz and 59/custom setup could, etc. How well a particular set will do what you want really depends on the type of tone you want. All those pickups I just listed can cover all that ground but how they do it is where things get touchy.

Do you want a warmer, creamier, smoother tone or do you want something raw, aggressive, with bite?

But without getting more specific information on what the guitar currently sounds like, what it has in it, and what the tonal goals are for this player it's hard to really give a very specific answer for what the best option would be when there are hundreds of combinations that would work well and every single one of them is different again yielding the IT DEPENDS answer.

I'm sorry that I consider LP type guitar a vague description. Does it have a lively or dead response? Is it warm or bright sounding? etc. Are you looking for a pickup to compensate for something that isn't currently happening?

[Jocelyn]

I like the JB a lot but for a LP I would go for something else. IMO its not the Mahogany,but more to do with the construction set neck vs Bolt on. You cant go wrong with a pair of 59s. A Custom in the bridge and 59n in the neck would be great or a set of Pearly Gates .That s what I would chose from to put in a LP. Just my 2 cents.

[LtKojak]

Your argument about wood type is the dumbest thing I've ever read l

You don't have any right to call names, pal.

If you can't keep it civil, you're welcome to refrain from posting here.

Consider yourself warned!

[GoldenVulture]

Hi there, good morning quick question, I plan to mod a les paul type guitar and I was looking for a pair of pups that will give me a broader tone from blues to modern rock, so I was thinking about the seymour duncans 59 and SH4, I'm kind of newbie about modifying a guitar electronics, so, not really sure, you guys know any other alternatives different than SD and in the same price range?

Thanks!

Arturo

EDIT: What about Gibson Burstbucker Pro Lead and Gibson Burstbucker Pro Rhythm?

Sorry I can't comment mate. I don't think I am knowledgable enough.

[blueman335]

it's a stereotyping judgement to say that a said species of wood sounds similar or the same. I build guitars for a living, often guitars made from wood from the same tree don't even sound alike. It really just depends and there is no arguing that. So trying to argue by saying that out of a sample of 100 blanks they all sounded like **** is just a bunch of BS. SDUGF makes up a very small percentage of guitarists and techs that swap pickups so if half of the people here claim that the JB sucks is still half of what 5% of people that swap pickups?

We know there's exceptions with every species of wood, we deal with it all the time. It's one of the reasons a PU is never guaranteed to give a certain sound (which the average player doesn't understand), but the majority of a 100 blanks of mahogany are going to sound closer to each than to a 100 blanks of maple.

We're not saying the JB sucks, just that it's often picky about the woods it likes, and in the expereince of many of us here, it has problems in mahogany much more often than woods that are typically brighter. Because of the unusual way it's wound, mahogany can sometimes bring out an 'ice pick spike' high end and a 'flabby low end' in a LP that rarely happens in Strats. A5's have a lot of treble and bass, and maybe with the wire and wire gauge of a JB, that creates a tonal conflict in some guitar/wood combinations more often than others. Certain combinations of variables can do unexpected things. That's not an unreasonable conclusion, hence the popularity of JB2's and JB'8s here. As we've found out thru the trials and posts of hundreds of players, most PU's can be made to give the desired tones, with the right magnet, which may not be the stock magnet.

For overwound PU's, the Custom series tends to do very well in mahogany on a more consistent basis, and for the average guy is a safer bet in an LP type guitar than a JB. Yes, a JB may sound great in some LP's, but it's not a good first recommendation for an LP owner that's new at aftermarket PU's. We'd like him to have the best chance of success. Seeing the frustration some of us have had with JB's in mahogany, a few of which have been shared here, is it fair to steer a newbie in that direction? While we're a small group of players here, statistically we can make a valid sample in what we like, or don't like, as far as PU/wood/magnet combinations. Seymour has put some of our ideas and experiements into production. We have some idea of what we're doing.

We appreciate input from members with your level of experience, but come on, there's no need to use words like stupid, dumb, and BS. Show some respect for people you disagree with. Talk with us, not down to us. Maybe once in a while you can learn a few things from some of us.

[Edgecrusher]

And I still think it's a stereotyping judgement to say that a said species of wood sounds similar or the same. I build guitars for a living, often guitars made from wood from the same tree don't even sound alike. It really just depends and there is no arguing that.


My points aren't to be insulting it's to debunk some of this bull crap being spread around. I build and repair guitars for a living. I work with hundreds of pickups and hundreds of pieces of wood on a daily basis. So while blueman is entitled to his opinions I am entitled to mine and given that information that we are talking about a hobbyist vs a professional I think my opinion ought to mean something too if not more.

Now that you've thrown this out there... Prove it. Since you've decided that your "opinion" is more valuable than others you should back up your claims. You make a terrible error in judging the amount of experience that people on this board have. At this point my spidey senses are telling me your another poseur. If you want to change this prove me wrong. Ill gladly eat crow on it if you can show me these hundreds of guitars you've build. (I would settle for a couple in reality) Otherwise you look too much like a monkey chumpin their nuts around. If you really want to help then help no need to be a gum ball about it.

[indie folk guy]

Maybe if you'd actually just answer my questions about how your specific guitar sounds and responds I could give you a real response.

And I'm sorry that there isn't a nicer way to say that you don't explain your point of view, don't use the verbiage of JB won't always work in a mahogany guitar use the verbiage in a brighter guitar sometimes the JB can sound like fill in the blank. And it's not like blueman doesn't have his fair share of controversial remarks.

Instead it's just the same dribble of telling me how the JB only works some of the time, well guess what the same can be said for any pickup including the Custom. You want to talk about having a higher success rate I still call BS (and again that's not to be a jerk) it's being honest and blunt. Until we know if we are dealing with a dead or lively, bright or warm toned instrument and what the OP is looking the pickup to do how can any of us say any option is the be all end all? Not to mention this forum is still a small percentage of people that use SD and other pickups and go to all the trouble to swap, etc.

I don't disclose business details due to proprietary reasons sorry if you don't like it, that's how we setup our LLC. I am working to change that.

I mean come on guys if you are going to try and convince me of your experience than stop the stupid conversations that will not get anyone anywhere. Ask the important questions and get the guy what will definitely get what he wants not what MIGHT. And it's funny that you guys act like you represent every member on the board when WE are all equal. Just don't assume I'm intentionally arguing or being a prick when I've spent over a decade working on and building guitars professionally (meaning this is how I earn a livelihood not just some guy that swaps pickups in his basement/garage). I actually have a business workshop and we are setting up a studio for creating youtube demos of our creations and making a website. Up to this point we have been an exclusive to locals type of operation. We had such a good response we have decided to expand this year. So until we make sure that all the legal stuff is covered and all our designs, etc are protected I really can't disclose details about anything including our brand name. Per our lawyers.

[MisterE]

For the record I have a PRS SE Singlecut with the JB/Jazz combo and it sounds just fine, not great but I like it so far. For those that don't know the PRS SE has a maple cap glued to a mahogany back.

Given those facts blueman335 is right, it's hit or miss in some mahogany guitars, there is no need to insult or discredit his opinions, he has helped a lot of people make well informed choices. His knowledge of mag swaps comes from actually doing them and hearing them for himself. He is no poseur.

It may sound like a cliche but can't we just all just get along.

[indie folk guy]

I will try to get some guitars approved to display here I just got off the phone with my business partner but it could take a few months.

Both of them are my personal guitars and I can kinda describe them to you.

One will never leave my clutches I built a 335 style guitar all maple body, maple centerblock, set mahogany neck, sperzel locking tuners, polished bone nut, lollar low wind imperials with pearloid/chrome mount, 2 vol, 2 tone, 3 way selector, pearloid pickguard, a special headstock design and abalone logo over ebony. The guitar has a union jack finish on the top the back of the neck, body and sides are finished in blue to match the flag. I'd really love to show that off as it's my crown jewel but until the designs and all that are protected someone could potentially steal my ideas (and my business partners lol).

I guess describing the others would be a little too much proprietary info. But we will be doing various Fender/Gibson influenced designs with our own twists. Since most of our guitars are made to order we provide a variety or finish options and we will personally select pickups/wiring to suit the needs of the individual player and in some cases provide some innovative not seen in other "stock" guitar options.

[blueman335]

Instead it's just the same dribble of telling me how the JB only works some of the time, well guess what the same can be said for any pickup including the Custom. You want to talk about having a higher success rate I still call BS (and again that's not to be a jerk) it's being honest and blunt. Until we know if we are dealing with a dead or lively, bright or warm toned instrument and what the OP is looking the pickup to do how can any of us say any option is the be all end all?

In the experiences of many of us here, there are PU's that tend to prefer certain woods. Disagree if you want, but I don't see that that's something for you to get worked up over. If you think that wood species are irrelevant, then a lot of guys here are going to disagree with that. Again, I ask you to stop with the 'BS/stupid/dribble' remarks; calm down and you'll make a lot more friends that way. No need for anyone to come in here with a chip on their shoulder and start verbally shoving members around. Make your point without humilating people. We're not all idiots and you're not the only luthier on this forum. Your job depends in part on people skills and I hope you have more with your customers than you're displaying here.

Most players don't know if they have 'lively' or 'dead' wood, or bright or warm wood, or even what PU's came in their guitar, so you can ask those questions, but often times you don't get a lot from them to go on. So how do you handle those people at your secret facitlity? Yell at them and hit them in the head? You really need to lighten up. We're trying to have a polite discussion, there's no reason why you can't do the same. Your emotion and temper are taking the focus away from the points you're trying to make; is that what you want?