Seymour Duncan California '50s Set Doubt

[newjarek]

Hi everyone,

I'm new in this Forum, but I've been reading some of the posts so I think here I'll be able to find people for helping or guiding me with my new set of pickups. Thank you in advance for your responses.

I bought the California 50s Set (3 SSL-1 pickups) and I put them on a Fender Standard Stratocaster MIM 2011. It gave me a new brighter sound, with more highs and perfect for playing funk, rock, pop, and those genres that need a clear, bright and brillant sound. I really like that vintage (bell) tone on my Strat, but the problem is that I hear less output from my pickups, I compared the output with a Squiet Strat Bullet and that Squier's signal was louder (and with more sustain) than the Fender (with new pups) one. I used the two guitars with the same conditions (a series of pedals containing an MXR Smart Gate M-135) going to a Fender FM212R amplifier.

My question is. Is it normal to lose sustain (and output level) with the SD SSL-1 pickups?, (The Luthier who installed the pickups didn't shorten the SSL-1's wires, he just rolled them), Can this affect my current sustain I have?, Should it have been better to cut the wires while installing them?, or maybe Should I try a new noise gate or noise supressor pedal such as the Boss NS-2? (Or some pedal without a big "cutting" effect like the MXR Smart Gate?.

Thanks, I hope I can get some help from you.

[Gypsyblue]

If your luthier installed your pickups without cutting the wires to length, I wonder if he didn't adjust them properly either. Adjusting the pickups closer to the strings will make them louder but to close will cause the magnetic polepieces to pull your low E and A strings out of tune and affect sustain. To far away, results in a weak tone.

Is the California set a calibrated set? Is the bridge pickup overwound compared to the neck and middle pickups? If all three pickups are wound identically, as they were in the 50's and 60's, and you're used to a set with a hot/modern bridge pickup, then the SSL-1 pickups might sound weaker than your stock pickups. Just a guess there.

The issue with the uncut wires would be mostly cosmetic but extra unshielded wire in a Stratocaster can also contribute to extra hum and noise.

[newjarek]

Thank you Gypsyblue for your answer. Well, I think the Luthier didn't cut (or shorten) the wires cause his assistant told me: "The wires are usually rolled and put together". However, I've seen in some Youtube videos that it's recommended to shorten the wires at a minimum size when installing the pickups. The wires of the SSL-1s are not unshield, I mean they have a covering material all along the wires and a bare tip at the end.

According to SD's page, those pickups are calibrated, but i don't think the bridge one has more wound than the others. I guess there is a special pickup (SSL-5) which has been made overwounded specially for the bridge position (getting more output than usual but less highs).

I don't know if the wire lenght can affect the output level or not (considering that all the wire is shielded).

[Simon_F]

Fender's web site doesn't specify the output of the pickups in a MIM Standard Strat, but my guess is that the SSL-1s are lower output than the stock pickups.

Having said that, make sure they are not adjusted too low - see if you can get them closer to the strings without getting wolf tones when playing the top frets.

There are several Seymour Duncan options for a hotter bridge pickup - the Twangbanger and the SSL-5 are both great.

[AudioWonderland]

Thank you Gypsyblue for your answer. Well, I think the Luthier didn't cut (or shorten) the wires cause his assistant told me: "The wires are usually rolled and put together". However, I've seen in some Youtube videos that it's recommended to shorten the wires at a minimum size when installing the pickups. The wires of the SSL-1s are not unshield, I mean they have a covering material all along the wires and a bare tip at the end.

According to SD's page, those pickups are calibrated, but i don't think the bridge one has more wound than the others. I guess there is a special pickup (SSL-5) which has been made overwounded specially for the bridge position (getting more output than usual but less highs).

I don't know if the wire lenght can affect the output level or not (considering that all the wire is shielded).

Not cutting the leads to length will have no impact on the sound. I have done that many times. I like to swap pickups a lot. There is no way to know how long they will need to be in the next guitar so I leave them alone.

Squires are not known for their impeccable setups. The pickups are likely closer than they probably boosting output. They also use a fairly hot magnet which will boost its output as well.

Its entirely possibly your tech set the new pickups heights to minimize the impact of the magnets pull on the string which is what he should have done. It sounds to me on the surface at least that you are seeing/hearing about what I would have expected from the change you described

[Gypsyblue]

Not cutting the leads to length will have no impact on the sound. I have done that many times. I like to swap pickups a lot. There is no way to know how long they will need to be in the next guitar so I leave them alone.

Squires are not known for their impeccable setups. The pickups are likely closer than they probably boosting output. They also use a fairly hot magnet which will boost its output as well.

Its entirely possibly your tech set the new pickups heights to minimize the impact of the magnets pull on the string which is what he should have done. It sounds to me on the surface at least that you are seeing/hearing about what I would have expected from the change you described

I always cut unshielded wires to length. The shorter the better in terms of noise reduction, and Strats are hummy enough already. Just my way of doing things.

[AudioWonderland]

I always cut unshielded wires to length. The shorter the better in terms of noise reduction, and Strats are hummy enough already. Just my way of doing things.

Sure, but its minimal and if shielded properly its of no consequence

[lazyfinger]

I run SSL-2 in the neck and SSL-6 in the bridge on a Fender Strat. Output and sustain is not a problem from either, however SSL-6 is hotter, and I have both set up around the same height, mainly because I prefer the extra kick for overdrive when I switch to bridge position.

[newjarek]

Hi,

Thank you all for your responses, now I have clear some doubts I had before. For example: That the wires' length won't affect the sustain or gain of my pups (it could affect the hum or noise but at minimal), and the other thing it's clear for me is that these vintage pups are made with less output level than current MIM pups or ceramic pups, so I need to calibrate very carefully the pups' heigth and process a little bit better my signal before going through an amp.

Well, as a member of this forum said, maybe I'm so accustomed to ceramic pups and high level output sounds, cause I've been playing my Squier Strat (with ceramic stock pups) for almost 9 years and now I can feel a diference with my Strat MIM with vintage alnico pups.

However, in general, I really love the California Set tone, it's clearer, brighter and more defined than regular pups, you can get a very high tone without producing an annoying super treble sound. It's just a perfect balance between highs and mids that create a bell-tone sound. IMO I prefer the Neck and Middle pups in this set.

Here, there's a video (an audio demo) I recorded with my Fender Strat MIM and its new set of pups, I'm using here the neck position. The signal is processed through a Crybaby Classic, MXR Noise Gate and a Boss DD-6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_sSOxSpYPs

Again, thank you all for your help. I'll continue practicing and enjoying the SD California 50s to obtain better sounds from my Strat.

[Gypsyblue]

Sure, but its minimal and if shielded properly its of no consequence

Well that's the point: Strats and Tele's are NOT shielded properly. Never have been. Gibson always used shielded cable even with P90 single coils. I'll admit though that I removed the black and white cloth covered unshielded wires from the three Fender pickups on a Strat one time and installed Gibson style shielded cable on those pickups. They still picked up that awful 60 cycle hum and buzzed.

[uOpt]

Ignore the wires. Longer is fine.

Check pickup height. You probably want to go higher to give it some more kick.

[GilmourD]

Ignore the wires. Longer is fine.

Check pickup height. You probably want to go higher to give it some more kick.

I've never cut the wires and there's not a good reason to.

Now, is this guy the exemplification of my pet peeves? Is he a real luthier (a guy you can hand a piece of wood and he'll turn it into a guitar) or is he just a tech using a fancy name?

[newjarek]

I've never cut the wires and there's not a good reason to.

Now, is this guy the exemplification of my pet peeves? Is he a real luthier (a guy you can hand a piece of wood and he'll turn it into a guitar) or is he just a tech using a fancy name?

So the wires' lenght doesn't affect the tone (or gain) of the pickup?.

[GilmourD]

So the wires' lenght doesn't affect the tone (or gain) of the pickup?.

If we're talking about 30 foot run, yeah. The length that comes with the pickup? I don't think even Eddie Van Halen or Eric Johnson can hear the difference.

[DMyers77]

SSL-1's will never be as loud as the Fender MIM pickups. The MIM pickups and the Squier pickups both use ceramic bar magnets with slugs, which causes them to have less string pull and be louder than vintage strat pickups... they just don't have good tone.

The SSL-1's use Alnico rod magnets, just like vintage strat pickups. They have lower output, but better tone. But if you adjust them too close to the strings, you will have poor intonation and sustain will suffer.

To adjust them, press the low E string down and the highest fret (usually 21st) and measure the distance from the string to the pickup pole piece. I usually start at 1/8" to get it close. Do the same for the high E string. This should give you a nice tone with good sustain, but lower output than you are used to. You can either crank up the amp to compensate, or raise the pickup height 1/4" turn at a time until you like the sound. If you start having intonation problems, lower it back down. You'll also have to play with the pickup heights to balance the volume across all 3 pickups.

Hope this helps!

Hi everyone,

I'm new in this Forum, but I've been reading some of the posts so I think here I'll be able to find people for helping or guiding me with my new set of pickups. Thank you in advance for your responses.

I bought the California 50s Set (3 SSL-1 pickups) and I put them on a Fender Standard Stratocaster MIM 2011. It gave me a new brighter sound, with more highs and perfect for playing funk, rock, pop, and those genres that need a clear, bright and brillant sound. I really like that vintage (bell) tone on my Strat, but the problem is that I hear less output from my pickups, I compared the output with a Squiet Strat Bullet and that Squier's signal was louder (and with more sustain) than the Fender (with new pups) one. I used the two guitars with the same conditions (a series of pedals containing an MXR Smart Gate M-135) going to a Fender FM212R amplifier.

My question is. Is it normal to lose sustain (and output level) with the SD SSL-1 pickups?, (The Luthier who installed the pickups didn't shorten the SSL-1's wires, he just rolled them), Can this affect my current sustain I have?, Should it have been better to cut the wires while installing them?, or maybe Should I try a new noise gate or noise supressor pedal such as the Boss NS-2? (Or some pedal without a big "cutting" effect like the MXR Smart Gate?.

Thanks, I hope I can get some help from you.

[the guy who invented fire]

The deal is that as mentioned above the MIM stock pickups use steel slugs and a ceramic bar magnet...terrible tone (IMO) but loads of output...that output drives your amp harder and that gives you more sustain.

[newjarek]

Hi DMyers77, I think you're right, I already knew these were Alnico V pickups and because of this, they have a brighter and more defined sound than the ceramic ones which have a rougher and deeper sound (more for distortions).

I really love my new strat sound, it's so slapply and bright. What I did to solve (or at least to improve) the sustain issue, was to graduate the bridge pickup height trying to get a balance between sustain and output, to turn off the MXR Noise Gate (specially while doing a solo that requires more sustain), and adding a Boss Mega Distortion (Using only the overdrive circuit - no distotrtion) to my current Turbo Distortion for boosting the signal.

Apart from that, for clean, overdriven, and crunchy rythms this pickup set is PERFECT!!!...

Any suggestions for improving my Strat sound (specially for sustain and gain) will be well received.

Thanks!.

SSL-1's will never be as loud as the Fender MIM pickups. The MIM pickups and the Squier pickups both use ceramic bar magnets with slugs, which causes them to have less string pull and be louder than vintage strat pickups... they just don't have good tone.

The SSL-1's use Alnico rod magnets, just like vintage strat pickups. They have lower output, but better tone. But if you adjust them too close to the strings, you will have poor intonation and sustain will suffer.

To adjust them, press the low E string down and the highest fret (usually 21st) and measure the distance from the string to the pickup pole piece. I usually start at 1/8" to get it close. Do the same for the high E string. This should give you a nice tone with good sustain, but lower output than you are used to. You can either crank up the amp to compensate, or raise the pickup height 1/4" turn at a time until you like the sound. If you start having intonation problems, lower it back down. You'll also have to play with the pickup heights to balance the volume across all 3 pickups.

Hope this helps!

[the guy who invented fire]

Pickup height on a Strat is THE KEY to a good even tone and nice sustain.

[uOpt]

Boss CS-2.

[zenmindbeginner]

That's why I yanked every SSL-1 out of every guitar I've ever had.

No sustain or the ability to easily drive an amp. Fantastic pickups in the right set of hands, just not mine. ; )

Great when combined with other SSL models in a set... makes a sublime middle pickup.

The Antiquity sets are perfect strat pickup choices... better than any boutique sets IMHO.