SG wraparound conversion

[SGFanatic]

This is what I want to do. I have a 2009 Gibson SG Standard and I want to remove the stock APR-1 style bridge and replace it with a Tone Pros style or Bad Ass style wraparound bridge. I realize I'll have to drill and do all that stuff. I've been thinking about for a while now and wanted to post my thoughts before I get crazy. My question concerns the position of the new bridge. The ABR is angled so the low E string is futher away from the nut. Now all the photos I see of the 70's style SG's the bridge is perfectly parallel, with no rise/run away from the nut. That's what it looks like anyway. If I do replace the bridge, do I have to angle the bridge as such, or can I fit the new post straight in line with nut? I know this is going to de-value the guitar, so from a economical perspective, its a no, but I don't care about that. What I do care about is renduring the guitar unplayable and having to have some major luthier work done to bring it back to normal. I'm also open to people arguing me out of it, albeit within sound reasoning. With all that said, my question is, will I be able to install this bridge (whether I do the work or not) and keep the guitar within the acceptable tolerances for proper intonation and tuning stability?

[Funkfingers]

I am 99% certain that somebody makes a combined bridge/tailpiece that does precisely what you want without the need to remove or re-drill the Tune-O-Matic mounts.

The stud or screw inserts should be drilled perpendicular to the line taken by the strings. Thus, on a set neck guitar with a neck pitch, the inserts will enter the body at an angle.

In my opinion, the TOM/Stopbar bridge assembly is part of the SG Standard sound. If you wanted the wrapover bridge, it would have been wiser to have purchased an SG that had this bridge to begin with then changed its P-90 pickguard assembly to something for twin humbuckers.

[ratherdashing]

You are literally the only person I've ever heard of who wanted to go from TOM + STP to wrap-around. Usually people are trying to do the opposite.

[SGFanatic]

I am 99% certain that somebody makes a combined bridge/tailpiece that does precisely what you want without the need to remove or re-drill the Tune-O-Matic mounts.

The stud or screw inserts should be drilled perpendicular to the line taken by the strings. Thus, on a set neck guitar with a neck pitch, the inserts will enter the body at an angle.

In my opinion, the TOM/Stopbar bridge assembly is part of the SG Standard sound. If you wanted the wrapover bridge, it would have been wiser to have purchased an SG that had this bridge to begin with then changed its P-90 pickguard assembly to something for twin humbuckers.

What I want is to replace the bridge with a wraparound bridge and the wraparound bridge's post to post measurement is wider than the ABR bridge.

[SGFanatic]

You are literally the only person I've ever heard of who wanted to go from TOM + STP to wrap-around. Usually people are trying to do the opposite.

It would be just as much work to do the opposite.

[the guy who invented fire]

Gibson used to angle wraparounds and as the years went on they angle went away.

Either way will be fine since you can tweak it with the adjustment on a wraparound

[SGFanatic]

Gibson used to angle wraparounds and as the years went on they angle went away.

Either way will be fine since you can tweak it with the adjustment on a wraparound

that's what I thought because those bridges have a lot to play in the saddles as far as how much you can move the string back and forth for intonation.

[the guy who invented fire]

that's what I thought because those bridges have a lot to play in the saddles as far as how much you can move the string back and forth for intonation.

Well, just a bar bridge can be intonated back and forth on the studs so no matter if you go angled or straight with the right wraparound bridge you should be able to intonate.

[SGFanatic]

Well, just a bar bridge can be intonated back and forth on the studs so no matter if you go angled or straight with the right wraparound bridge you should be able to intonate.

Exactly. Shaller makes an adjustable wraparound. I saw one at stew-mac that looks good.

[the guy who invented fire]

Exactly. Shaller makes an adjustable wraparound. I saw one at stew-mac that looks good.

I use an old Leo Quann on my Melody Maker and my brother uses one on his old SG...however he uses the Schaller 455 on his LP Jr and likes it better than the Bad Ass.

I think it's a quality bridge for sure and it's a LOT easier to get than a Quan.

[SGFanatic]

Sorry for misspelling schaller

[the guy who invented fire]

Sorry for misspelling schaller

Doesn't bother me!

[PonyKiller]

Wraparound bridges usually have screws to adjust the bridge-to-post distance. Even if you set it with perfectly straight posts, you can crank the screw of the low strings post to match the position of a stock tune-o-matic bridge. However, that's commonly used for wraparound bridges with fixed intonation. If you get a wraparound with intonable saddles you'll likely won't have to mess with that.

I would consider going from a wraparound to a TOM/Stopbar combo but never the other way. The unused stopbar posts would look really bad.

[SGFanatic]

Wraparound bridges usually have screws to adjust the bridge-to-post distance. Even if you set it with perfectly straight posts, you can crank the screw of the low strings post to match the position of a stock tune-o-matic bridge. However, that's commonly used for wraparound bridges with fixed intonation. If you get a wraparound with intonable saddles you'll likely won't have to mess with that.

I would consider going from a wraparound to a TOM/Stopbar combo but never the other way. The unused stopbar posts would look really bad.

Yes, I understand that. It's not too much of a concern for me. I'm OK with that as long as I'm happy with the rest of it. I'm still not 100% if I'm going through with it.

[PonyKiller]

Well, if we are talking about a wraparound bridge with intonable saddles, it all comes down to aesthetics as it'll perform exactly as the TOM/Stopbar setup. It comes down to personal preference.

As for the wraparound bridge replacing the TOM, according to the Stewmac site, it'll be OK:

Tune-o-matic style bridges:
ABR-1 Tune-o-matic Bridges
Nashville Tune-o-matic Bridge
Gotoh Tune-o-matic Bridge
Schaller Roller Bridge
L.R. Baggs T-Bridge
Locking Roller Bridge
Gotoh 510 Bridge & Tailpiece
24.623" (±0.030") from nut to center of treble-side post. Mount bass-side post 1/16"-1/8" further from the nut.

Combo Bridge/Tailpieces:
Schaller Bridge/Tailpiece
SG Junior Bridge
Adjustable Wraparound Bridge
Pigtail Aluminum Wraparound Bridge
Wilkinson/Gotoh Adjustable Bridge/Tailpiece
Hipshot Baby Grand Bridge
24.623" (±0.030") from nut to center of mounting studs.
Note: Some bridge/tailpieces may require you to mount the bass-side stud an additional 1/16"-1/8" further from the nut.

Now, keep in mind that the current TOM post location wouldn't gonna work for the new bridge. Wraparound bridges usually require the same post location as the stopbar, which is wider than the TOM setup.

Check out the Warmoth site with the dimensions:
Scroll down to "Gibson® Type Bridge Mounting"
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies...ngOptions.aspx

The posts should be 8mm further appart (according to Warmoth at least). Anyway, the recent SG Standards have the full pickguard around the TOM so you'll also have to modify it. No big deal on the 'guard but you'll likely gonna have problems with the body. The current holes would likely have to be doweled before you drill the new holes. Good thing is that the guard will cover everything (well, except the stopbar posts...).
So far seems like its doable (in theory at least).

Dunno man, seems like an awful lot of trouble to get to the same place at the end (at a functional point of view).

At the end, I don't see it negatively affecting the value of the guitar. The pickguard would cover everything either way. If you ever want to go back, just redowel/redill the holes for the TOM, get a new 'guard and everything would look stock.

[blueman335]

Dunno man, seems like an awful lot of trouble to get to the same place at the end (at a functional point of view).

+1. Isn't there something else he could be working on?

[ItsaBass]

The bridge is likely a Nashville TOM, not an ABR-1. If it is an ABR-1, you probably have a '61 Reissue, not a Standard, and I would not touch it. Personally, I'd get a Junior or Special and convert to humbuckers before I would take a Standard and convert it to a wraparound...but whatever floats your boat. It's not like it's a precious antique or something. I just don't know what you are hoping to achieve.

You'll have to plug the stock holes and drill new ones, unless you can find someone out there who makes a drop-in conversion (not likely). You can use whatever angle your bridge already has, or if you get a tunable wraparound, you can even put it in straight. I'd just use the angle that is already there. I've seen '60's ones that were angled, and others that were straight, so either way you do it won't be glaringly inconsistent with what might have been. (But those empty stop tailpiece inserts will be.) And the post holes in your pickguard are angled, so those will be covered up better if you keep the same angle.

The '70's and early '80's Gibson bridges could be non-angled because the bridges they used were so wide. Even then, some of them (like the one on my '83 LP Custom) had multiple post holes on the bottoms, so you could angle the bridge if needed.

The unused stopbar posts would look really bad.

Doesn't make much sense without an added vibrato, but what they hay?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/CUSTOM-MADE-...item564acebebb

[SGFanatic]

The bridge is likely a Nashville TOM, not an ABR-1. If it is an ABR-1, you probably have a '61 Reissue, not a Standard, and I would not touch it. Personally, I'd get a Junior or Special and convert to humbuckers before I would take a Standard and convert it to a wraparound...but whatever floats your boat. It's not like it's a precious antique or something. I just don't know what you are hoping to achieve.

You'll have to plug the stock holes and drill new ones, unless you can find someone out there who makes a drop-in conversion (not likely). You can use whatever angle your bridge already has, or if you get a tunable wraparound, you can even put it in straight. I'd just use the angle that is already there. I've seen '60's ones that were angled, and others that were straight, so either way you do it won't be glaringly inconsistent with what might have been. (But those empty stop tailpiece inserts will be.) And the post holes in your pickguard are angled, so those will be covered up better if you keep the same angle.

The '70's and early '80's Gibson bridges could be non-angled because the bridges they used were so wide. Even then, some of them (like the one on my '83 LP Custom) had multiple post holes on the bottoms, so you could angle the bridge if needed.



Doesn't make much sense without an added vibrato, but what they hay?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/CUSTOM-MADE-...item564acebebb

You're right, its a Nashville on a standard.
I knew I would get flak for posting this. And yes blue, I should be found a lot of other things besides drilling holes into my guitars.

[Mr. B]

This is what I want to do. I have a 2009 Gibson SG Standard and I want to remove the stock APR-1 style bridge and replace it with a Tone Pros style or Bad Ass style wraparound bridge.

Why ? Just curious...

[SGFanatic]

Why ? Just curious...

Because I like Tony Iommi Monkey SG. It's all beat up and effed with. I like that kind of thing. I also like working on my gear. It's my hobby within a hobby.