The real influence of wood in tone

[Mr 9finger]

You guys that are comparing Vai to Gilmour for a "processed" sound. You do realize that Gilmour's pedal board and rack setup makes Vai's setup look tiny right? David Gilmour is one of my favorite players, but his tone is anything but unprocessed. His pedal board dwarfs Vai's board and his rack is closer to Petrucci's in size. Last I read, Vai was using an Eventide Harmonizer and an AxeFXII for his effects chain. Then he's got a midi switcher, his wah, volume, and custom Ibanez OD on his board. Gilmour has a whole rack full of stuff and something like 15 different pedals on his board.

[Kostas]

...So what do you guys think, what real knowledge or guessings do you have about the subject?

Personally I can feel & hear of different woods when I play. A mahogany body will always sound different than an ash body. Woods give a different tone even if some people can't hear it. Everything in the chain from guitar to amp changes our sound, sometimes we can hear it sometimes we can't.

A-B tests are always your best friend if you want to hear differences in sound. Have a quality clean tube amp and change bodies/necks always with the same bridge/tuners/pickups/pots/capacitors/cables.

[theboatcandream]

this is a pretty good answer, I was going to say the same.

it's like EMGs... can you tell what guitar is which is they all have EMGs?

Yes and no. I've heard recordings of EMGs in alder versus recordings of EMGs in mahogany and there's a very noticeable difference.

The thing is, once you throw in processing, the influence of the amp and the microphones and the PA system, and you surround the guitar with a bunch of other instruments, and you put it in a live space full of bodies, then yeah. The differences diminish and people care more about your playing and songwriting.

[formula73]

Yes and no. I've heard recordings of EMGs in alder versus recordings of EMGs in mahogany and there's a very noticeable difference.

Quoted for truth.

[uOpt]

On average EMG users tend to be users who also use higher gain, or substantial compression in clean.

That doesn't mean that they make guitars sound the same when used with regular gain.

[Filipe Marquez]

For example, I made a telecaster out of oak, and I'd say it sounds close to an SG/telecaster/Les Paul hybrid, with DAYS of sustain. Now that probably has a lot to do with the thinner body (1 5/8"), single cutaway, dual action truss rod (Warmoth Pro neck), Schaller Floyd Rose, shorter sustain block (cut to fit thinner body), 11-54 strings, single GFS Alnico II bridge humbucker (best pickup I've ever used btw, but I have yet to try the highly regarded Pearly Gates or Duncan Custom Custom), 500K pots with coil split, and 10-16" compound radius.

How would you caracterize oak? Is it a premium type of wood? Also do you think pine is good?

If the answer is yes, and the player can make anything sound good, from cheap firewood to top shelf instruments, then yes, the wood does matter. He'll hear it amongst all the other variables.

I've read somewhere, i don't remember where, some producer giving an interview that he was in the same studio as EVH one time, and that he heard an amazing sound coming from the sound room, and when he entered was EVH playing through a Steinberger...

Which leads me to think too, that Cynic has an amazing sound, and they play through Steinbergers!

[verbotenco]

Even a second grader knows wood makes a difference. If not, people would make guitars out of any wood lying around, even plywood for that matter. Steve Vai is always a special case, can't be used as a proxy. After all he's the second greatest man on earth after Jesus.

[verbotenco]

You guys that are comparing Vai to Gilmour for a "processed" sound. You do realize that Gilmour's pedal board and rack setup makes Vai's setup look tiny right? David Gilmour is one of my favorite players, but his tone is anything but unprocessed. His pedal board dwarfs Vai's board and his rack is closer to Petrucci's in size. Last I read, Vai was using an Eventide Harmonizer and an AxeFXII for his effects chain. Then he's got a midi switcher, his wah, volume, and custom Ibanez OD on his board. Gilmour has a whole rack full of stuff and something like 15 different pedals on his board.

Yet Steve Vai can kick Gilmour's ass back to Stock-on-Trent! Ha..ha.. Kidding man.

[DeanSweden]

people would make guitars out of any wood lying around

Brian May comes to mind.
We know how tat turned out

[Filipe Marquez]

Brian May comes to mind.
We know how tat turned out

His guitar was made out of oak right? Body, neck and fingerboard?

[That90'sGuy]

Everything effects everything. That's as far as you can take this discussion, because it's true.

There's a reason wood is selected and broken down to meet each price point a company needs to meet. There's varying wood qualities.

Then, you have the next variable. Does the body, neck, and hardware make a great, good, decent, or bad sound?

How good are the pickups, and are they the best ones for that guitar and musical style of the player?

How is the setup? High, medium, low? String gauge? What kind of pick? Fingers?

Is the guitar heavy, and using the pickups to dictate the sound? Is the guitar light and resonant, and the pickups are making that come through?

What is the amp? What is the tone?

Does the player even sound like a proficient player who can make the gear sound good, or is all the above a moot point? Because if the musician isn't even talented, then none of it really matters at all.

If the answer is yes, and the player can make anything sound good, from cheap firewood to top shelf instruments, then yes, the wood does matter. He'll hear it amongst all the other variables.

At that level, especially if the player has owned a good number of quality guitars, then wood is definitely a big part of the equation. Not just for sound, but for it's reaction against the fingers. And at this point, a player will often play a guitar unplugged for quite awhile before even plugging it in. Getting to know the acoustic properties of the guitar before even adding the other elements is how you judge the overall quality of a guitar.

This post is so spot on there's really nothing else to add.

[DeanSweden]

His guitar was made out of oak right? Body, neck and fingerboard?

partly. I believe the neck was mahogany w/ wormholes from an old fireplace,
fretboard was oak with some plastic/acrylic finish and the body was made
from oak and blockboard(?) with mahogany veneer to give it an appearance
of a solidbody guitar when it actually had f-holes from the start

[Filipe Marquez]

partly. I believe the neck was mahogany w/ wormholes from an old fireplace,
fretboard was oak with some plastic/acrylic finish and the body was made
from oak and blockboard(?) with mahogany veneer to give it an appearance
of a solidbody guitar when it actually had f-holes from the start

Really? That's really cool! I didn't know about the f-holes.

[DeanSweden]

neither did I, until I heard Brian say it himself

[Filipe Marquez]

Nice! lol :P

[DeanSweden]

The thing is, once you throw in processing, the influence of the amp and the microphones and the PA system, and you surround the guitar with a bunch of other instruments, and you put it in a live space full of bodies, then yeah. The differences diminish and people care more about your playing and songwriting.

I'd even go as far as saying that once you turn the amps power on,
the processing starts.

[Cazarstan]

All these true things aside, no matter what wood is used in the guitar, someone, somewhere knows how to make it sing. If it doesn't sound good using one method, try a different playing style or genre or ??

[Myaccount876]

How would you caracterize oak? Is it a premium type of wood? Also do you think pine is good?

Oh sorry I never replied. I never saw this thread after I posted, and I have no idea if you're checking this thread anymore, but I'll give an answer anyways.

Oak is a very nice wood I think. I think the only reason guitar builders don't use it is simply for weight and you have to be more careful when working on it because it is so dense and can splinter. The builder won't have any problems though if they know what they're doing. Pine is also good for some applications. The original esquires and I think broadcasters had pine bodies and no one complained. One of the Classic Vibe Squier Telecasters is also made of pine, which I tried and I think it is nice for a country, poppy, 50s rock, and rockabilly sound. But that is also in combination with the small frets, steel ash-tray with brass saddles bridge, and vintage voiced single coils with 250K pots.

[kilphody]

First of all any good engineer can make any sound you like. BUT to make a good guitar sound great takes a whole different set of parameters.. wood s,bridge,frets, neck woods/fingerboard... all the little difs in density of the materials of construction change the tone of EACH GUITAR. Moisture content when gluing (WHICH ONE? LOL} as applied to the wood ( I prefer about 12% for Mahog ,Get a DMM) as to Alphatic slip resin/ Urea Formaldehide glues it's a new game. Size of screws, etc. Type of screws.... Trem block density..
The bottom line is if you can really play you can make a rubber band sound great.
PS- I would never use oak or poplar only as a last resort if I had to.
PC

[Chocklit_Thunda]

Even a second grader knows wood makes a difference. If not, people would make guitars out of any wood lying around, even plywood for that matter.

I disagree with this... I've played a few plywood guitars and even those old dano's that are made of Masonite and stuff and they sounded good. It's more the quality of work that goes into it than the cheap wood. I mean obviously cheap pine plywood would sound shyte but decent ply, if properly constructed wounds superb.
You can't write woods off just because the cheap guys use it (a la Squier bullet)