Cold Feet - Les Paul Classic

[spuds]

I posted a thread about a week ago about a 2nd hand Gibson LP Classic I'm thinking of getting. Well, I've decided to get it and I'm making arrangements to pick it up sometime in December.

Thing is, I'm getting "pre-purchase buyers remorse". Hahah. I'm not too sure if its too wise a choice.

I've been playing my good ol epi for years and its pretty much got everything upgraded. A friend of mine also has a very well modded epi and somebody lent him a Gibson LP Deluxe (with mini humbuckers). He was telling me last night that there was suprisingly very little difference between the two guitars. The Gibson felt better to play (the neck had a smoother finish and the fretwork was obviously better), but that was about it.

He swore his Epi sounded better (with a Jazz / JB) and he even sent me a recording to prove it. I know that the pickups are different so I'm not really taking this into consideration.

He's saying that its a great feeling to pick up a guitar that says gibson on it, but it is no way worth the price tag when I've already got an epi with all the parts upgraded.

What do you guys think?

[Archer_of_Fish]

I think Gibsons are a far better guitar than any Epi could ever be. The anti Gibson camp is HUGE but is founded by a lot of ppl that cant afford a Gibson.

[TheArchitect]

My guitar always sounds better than yours. Not necessarily because it does, but because I am used to how it sounds. Even if it sounds the same aren't better build quality and playability worth something?

[XSSIVE]

despite my hate for new gibsons i just bought myself a mint used '99 standard about 1hr ago. i've owned several epi les pauls and a few gibson les pauls and there are dogs from both camps and good ones from both. when you get a good gibson les paul it will be even better than a good epi les paul for sure. i think you made a wise choice and it will be a good upgrade from the epi.

-Mike

[Archer_of_Fish]

My guitar always sounds better than yours. Not necessarily because it does, but because I am used to how it sounds. Even if it sounds the same aren't better build quality and playability worth something?

Thats exactly why I would rather have a Gibson than an Epi. A Gibson is a more solid piece, in the future you wont see 40 year old Epis that have REALLY been played. THe build quality and wood stock grade just isnt there.

[jmh151]

You'll never regret the Gibson. As Archer of Fish said, the anti Gibson camp is mainly by people that can't afford them. The best way to buy a Les Paul is used. I have 1986 Les Paul Custom that eats PRS and most new Gibsons. A Gibson will last you your entire life and may be the last guitar you buy.

[JeffB]

he's comparing his EPI to a Gibson LP Deluxe..sent you a recording of his EPI vs. the Deluxe and now you are having "remorse" about buying a totally different Les Paul?

Am I understanding you correctly?

If so, thats kind of silly. You've go the diff in pups as you noted ...second..how old is the deluxe? Norlin (i.e. 70s/early 80s) deluxes are really hit or miss...especially with a maple neck.

In order to avoid any remorse, play before ya buy...once you play a "magic" one , you'll understand

[JB_From_Hell]

Thats exactly why I would rather have a Gibson than an Epi. A Gibson is a more solid piece, in the future you wont see 40 year old Epis that have REALLY been played. THe build quality and wood stock grade just isnt there.

Gibson is a solid piece? My 50's ES-175 is falling apart. My dad's 61 or 62 LP (the SG shaped one) had to have the neck glued back on, and extended because they mounted the bridge half an inch too close to the nut.

Even if Gibson's quality control wasn't laughable, doesn't comparing the build quality of a $500 instrument to a $2000+ seem kind of silly?

[spuds]

Thanks for your advice guys.
Yeah. I think I just tend to get scared before making any major purchaces... I just worry a lot of its a good choice.

I've heard a lot of talk about the Gibson quality control issues. When did these problems arise? The one I'm looking at is a '98.

[spuds]

he's comparing his EPI to a Gibson LP Deluxe..sent you a recording of his EPI vs. the Deluxe and now you are having "remorse" about buying a totally different Les Paul?

Am I understanding you correctly?

If so, thats kind of silly. You've go the diff in pups as you noted ...second..how old is the deluxe? Norlin (i.e. 70s/early 80s) deluxes are really hit or miss...especially with a maple neck.

In order to avoid any remorse, play before ya buy...once you play a "magic" one , you'll understand

No no... I really meant it when I said i'm not at all taking it into consideration. I am fully aware that the different pickups will sound completely different... I was just telling you guys everything that was mentioned in our conversation.

The tone comparison has absolutely nothing to do with my "remorse". Come on... I'm not so stupid as to be shaken by someone's claim that his epi sounds better than a gibson. My remorse comes from wondering if my cash could be used better in other areas that I also want (Like retubing my amps, getting a custom 2x12 cab made, getting G-force etc...).

Just wondering whether getting this guitar, or buying several other pieces of gear with that cash would give me a bigger bang for the buck.

[JeffB]

No no... I really meant it when I said i'm not at all taking it into consideration. I am fully aware that the different pickups will sound completely different... I was just telling you guys everything that was mentioned in our conversation.

The tone comparison has absolutely nothing to do with my "remorse". Come on... I'm not so stupid as to be shaken by someone's claim that his epi sounds better than a gibson. My remorse comes from wondering if my cash could be used better in other areas that I also want (Like retubing my amps, getting a custom 2x12 cab made, getting G-force etc...).

Just wondering whether getting this guitar, or buying several other pieces of gear with that cash would give me a bigger bang for the buck.

Please don't take offense, I meant none....I misunderstood your "remorse"

Only you can determine what is the better deal re: buying other stuff or the Gibby. A good Gibby as said, will be the guitar of a lifetime...very cost effective in the long run....but do you NEED it?

[XSSIVE]

you should be fine with a '98. most of the QC issues i have seen have been from late 2003 or early 2004 to now and they get worse (or more common i should say) as they get newer. the standard i just bought is a '99 and it has none of the issues i have seen on newer ones. also my 2002 has none of the issues with frets or paint or anything. but my late 2004 i recently sold had some issues with the paint around the side dots and the groves on each side of the frets on the fretboard due to the tools they are using for fret dressing. it was a killer player so i let it slide but it still wasn't 100% perfect.

anyway, you should be fine with yours.

-Mike

[twoheadedboy]

Probably the biggest thing the Gibson would have going for it is resale value. Epiphones don't really retain a decent resale value because they don't have the prestige and because they are at a lower price point to begin with. It seems to be much easier to sell a used Gibson if you take care of it.

[spuds]

Please don't take offense, I meant none....I misunderstood your "remorse"

Only you can determine what is the better deal re: buying other stuff or the Gibby. A good Gibby as said, will be the guitar of a lifetime...very cost effective in the long run....but do you NEED it?

No offence taken mate. Really appreciate your input.

To be honest... I don't NEED it. But I FREAKIN WANT IT. Hahah. Slight difference.

As stated in my first thread... one of the things thats stopping me is the colour. Its cherry sunburst which I find slightly too red without a flame maple top. And thats the thing. A Gibson IS a guitar of a lifetime and that is why I'm hesitating.

[Sludgenutz]

Buy it! The first good electric guitar I bought was a friend's 335-S fifteen years ago (listed below in my gear), and the ONLY reason I bought an Epi LP was that I was tired of tuning one guitar for multiple tunings. The strings I like for standard tunings is worthless @ D, and D-drop C tunings.

It's not like, once you spend the money, the money is burnt up. You will still have some value that fiddle!

The body quality on my '81 is rather crude around the solid cherry body, but the neck/ebony fretboard and pickups are 100% fall-in-love.

Buy it if feels like an old friend.

[spuds]

So the quality control issues were mainly things like flubby paint jobs and inproper fret dressing? I want to know what to look out for.

Cheers.

[Sludgenutz]

I can only speak from my own experience. I am no Gibson guru. I just imagine my own Gibson was made by a team of craftsman, and that the people sanding the necks and dressing the frets were a different crew than the newby/schlubs on the body crew. The people on the neck crew were kickass! And yet another crew painted and finished it. The pickup crew...well, they did good by me! A very solid, loud set of pickups with with minimal feedback.

Look it over! Look at the attention to detail. You wouldn't mistake a Yugo for a Benz!

[XSSIVE]

what i have seen in person:

sharp fret ends
raised frets
paint bleed onto bindning
lifted binding (peeling off a bit in areas)
cracked binding in areas
orange peel in paint (looks rough to the eye not glassy and smooth)
grooves in the fretboard on each side of every fret due to the tool used for fret dressing (seems to be the most common little issue)
odd haze in clear coat
buff through marks (clear coat buffed off right to the paint)
haze or chipping paint around the side dots

i have read of other silly things and have seen pictures but above is what i have seen in person.

most of them are cosmetic things but some like raised frets and sharp fret ends will cost you more cash out of pocket to have them fixed if you can't do it yourself.

again, with a 98 your chances are very good that it won't have any of the new QC things that they let slide now.

i wouldn't worry about it much. as long as you have at least seen good pictures and got a good description of the guitar you should be ok. it's best to play them in person but sometimes you have to wing it and go by a good description and good pics. never buy one blind though without any pics, that's risky with any guitar.

i have no problem with buying used les pauls or any gibsons for that matter. it's the new ones i try to avoid.

-Mike

[GuitarSandwich]

I've heard a lot of talk about the Gibson quality control issues. When did these problems arise?

1965

[The Golden Boy]

1965

As soon as Ted left, the whole place went to pot.