ATTENTION! Somethings wrong over at Tokai...

[eresseraca]

I friend of mine was interested in buying a Tokai from Ishibashi in Japan. Sent a mail there and got the following reply. I quote directly from the mail he got:

First of all, please understand our situation. We do not sell any Tokai
guitar at our stores. We have carried it only in case a customer wants.
We will quit to handle any Tokai guitar in the end of this month because
of chronic shortage of their products and quality problems.

Tokai does not have any LS85 in stock. An order in advance is always
required for it. Excepted arrival date is unknown. Possibly, you will
have to wait for 2-3 months after you place your order. Our best price
is 68,000 Yen. It comes with a soft case.
Shipping cost of them is 16,000 Yen.
Anyway, this month is the last chance for an order of Tokai. If you
purchase a Tokai guitar from us, please place your order soon and complete
payment by the end of June.
Also, we have often seen finish problems for current Tokai products,
including a scratch or a dent or a rough paint work. We cannot accept
returning for reason of such problems.

I also recieved a mail a couple of days ago from another guy who was about to order a Tokai from Ishibashi and had read here on the SD forum that I had ordered mine from them as well. He asked about the quality, finish etc on the Tokai that I bought last year from Ishibashi. Because he got the a similar reply when he mailed them. Here's a quote from the mail he got:

Firstly, please note our situation. We do not have any Tokai guitar in
stock. We handle it only in case a customer place an order.
Secondly, a craftsmanship of Tokai is not superb. We have often seen a
dent or a scratch or a defective finish work on their guitar although it
just comes from the manufacturer. We do not accept returning for those
reasons.

The craftsmanship of Tokai used to be good. The current products are not.
We have repeatedly advised Tokai to improve the quality but there has
been no improvement.
Tokai does not make their guitars in a large quantity. Also, we obtain
a Tokai item through a supplier. We cannot choose a good one from a few
units. To sell a Tokai item bothers us.
Those are reasons why we do not sell a Tokai item at our stores

Somethings seriously wrong over at Tokai... are the about to quit the business!? Quality issues out of nowhere?! Maybe someones got more info on this.

[dani]

you can check over at the tokai board.

[eresseraca]

Did a quick peak there yesterday. Didn't have much time and I didn't find any thread about this. Seems to be a fairly new problem?

Just after I got mine last year, in other words in November/December sometime Ishibashi removed the Tokais from their page to update to the 2006 model line (I read somewhere) but they never updated and now they say that the recent Tokais have quality issues and they will therefore stop selling them. Some major change/rearrangement over at the factory maybe.

[Wattage]

Could just be a disgruntled seller.

[cream123]

Could just be a disgruntled seller.

+1 that's what it sounds like to me

[JeffB]

Based on the research I've done about Ishibashi (as there was a time recently when i was ready to plunk down $1200 for the Tokai equivalent of an R8), I would say the "disgruntled" dealer thing is prolly correct, but NOT because they have any axe to grind. There have been sev theads on various forums about really bad QC from Tokai this year as well as extreme lack of supply and long delays. Both in Japan and the UK. As a dealer, I think being "disgruntled" in this case is justified...no matter who it is.

Ishibashi is noted for having stellar CS, and above and beyond service before the sale (sending hi res pics of your guitar for approval before shipping, sending back a guitar to Tokai for replacement because of minor QC issues, etc).

I'm sorry to hear this though cos if I did grab another Tokai, it would have been through them based on their rep (Ishibashi's)

[pongx]

hi eresseraca, i have started a new thread over at the tokai forums, lets see how it goes.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=30795#30795

[JacksonMIA]

Somethings seriously wrong over at Tokai... are the about to quit the business!? Quality issues out of nowhere?! Maybe someones got more info on this.

Gibson bought them out.

[dani]

i remembered ishibashi was offering tokais for a few months. from what i know, japanese companies take pride in their qc. quite rarely will one get a bad japan-made product.

[mattleesc]

hey i got the same reply too, was about to order a loverock with my pal.

[JeffB]

hi eresseraca, i have started a new thread over at the tokai forums, lets see how it goes.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=30795#30795

Heh..good place for info on the guitars themselves. But that forum is extremely biased. Many of the members will be the first to knock another company, but have an absolute fit when anything bad is mentioned about Tokai...unlike say the LPF forum where you still have a ton of members who bash the heck out of Gibson

[eresseraca]

It's sad, as it's been mentioned. Ishibashi was regarded one of the best Tokai exporters and had a great rep and they were very polite and helpful when I did my order.

Gibson buying them would without doubt explain the whole thing. That would almost be maffia style though

Thanks pongx! We'll see what happen to these discussions. Can become quite a hot topic over at the Tokai forum. Haven't been over there too much but lots of great info as JeffB says.

[pongx]

eresseraca - haha thanks for starting this thread anway.

from isshibashi's email, it seems like it is more of the manufacturer's fault rather than the supplier's.

could anyone suggest any other webshops that have tokais maybe in stock that doesnt have qc issues?

really keen on one..

[Skarekrough]

eresseraca - haha thanks for starting this thread anway.

from isshibashi's email, it seems like it is more of the manufacturer's fault rather than the supplier's.

could anyone suggest any other webshops that have tokais maybe in stock that doesnt have qc issues?

really keen on one..

I might suggest looking at the other manufacturers of "clones" on the market, specifically used.

[ibanezmedz]

haha, yeh i remember the thread about some dude on the tokai forum too. he got a crap tokai and then they locked his thread about it

like i said, stay with ibanez, all other brands are evil :fing25:

[Gearjoneser]

Toke, aye?

[theodie]

Gibson bought them out.

Might be the truth considering what is being said about them???

[JB_From_Hell]

Man.... I SOOOOOO wanted to be the first w/ the Gibby joke.

Oh well... that's what I get for reading a thread 18 hours after it's posted

[eresseraca]

Hmm... some fighting over at the thread on the Tokai forum.

Still, good news is that one of the guys over there seems to have contacted both Tokai Gakki and Hiroaki over at Ishibashi to get more info about what it is that's really happening over there.

Not good at all for Tokai if their quality is lacking like this... When I bought mine I got a an example of the great quality craftsmanship that Tokai has been known for. If this is the QC of Tokai now, I sincerely hope that they do something about it or brand new Tokais are soon to be no more (at least no one will buy them).

[JeffB]

Hmm... some fighting over at the thread on the Tokai forum.

Told ya!

Seems like general concensus tho is that Ishibashi has been sendiing back quite a few guitars.

I think your best bet is to go used..and especially older models if you can. Prices are still darn reasonable considering the normal high Tokai quality.

I think if I was going to go with a NEW Import I'd go Edwards just cos at $800 bucks with shipping you are getting a real high quality guitar/exceptional value (wood is a crapshoot). Used the old Grecos and Burnys seem to be the best value. But the best looking ones I've seen (online) for wood grain and finishes have been the old Orvilles. Very nice tops (plain or figured),straight grained backs/necks, and the poly looks pretty thin unlike the Edwards models.

I've come to realize tho that ordering online is just a crapshoot. If you cannot send the guitar back..whether it's ebay or Katana..you are taking a big risk. High build quality does not equate to a great piece of wood. And although some may feel otherwise, my experience with Gibbos and a bunch of imprts tells me Nitro makes a positive difference...in feel and sound. Very little Nitro finish, like on the Faded Gibsons, is even better.