Warren Buffett donates to the Gates foundation.

[neosadist]

That's damn near fascist.

No, I'm saying it in the sense that an altered mind might be leading to an alternative lifestyle. I'm not saying that they all need to be institutionalized for being different.

However, back to the comment about choices. My comment back when was to the point of someone made it sound like gays had no choice in the matter: they were going to be gay and there's nothing they could do to prevent it. I say it's bull. All human beings are born with a choice. To not have the capacity to control one's self and/or to choose is usually a common trait of mental disorders (i.e. that's one way to view them). Syzophrenia is the lack of the ability to maintain perception in reality, or you could think of it like that. Paranoia is the lack of the ability to see things for how they are without reading into them, etc.

I'm not saying being homosexual is a mental disorder. What I'm saying, however, is that being gay is a lifestyle choice: a conscious choice. To say that how they act is not their choice, i.e. they can't choose anything but that, is to say they lack the ability to control themselves. What I'm saying is that I have respect for the gay couple that admits that they chose to be gay. I have no respect for someone who blames genetics. Like I said, either you were born normal with the ability to choose, and your actions are your responsibility, or you lack the ability to choose and you shouldn't be considered sane. I can't just go to work and do what I want and blame genetics for my lack of self-control (unless I truly have psychological problems, etc). The same applies to life: I can't neglect my kid and blame my genetics, for example. I can't cheat on my wife and blame it on genetics. I can't be gay and blame genetics. And if I was gay (which I'm not, but for the sake of argument...) I would come out and own up to it, not say it's genetics or I was born with it.

[neosadist]

Should mentally retarded people not be allowed to watch television? .Should Canadians not be allowed as much oxygen as Americans?
Should fat people have to work 7 days a week? Should short people have to pay more taxes than tall people? If I were to say any of these things should be, you would think me unjust, and awfully discriminatory.

If you think I'm being bigotist, it's probably a misunderstanding between us two. However, science has been trying to blame homosexual behavior on genetics for a while, without any proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I mean, I can see how maybe it's a mental deficiency in some enzyme, but still, it's a choice. Bigotry breeds hatred against people for things that are not their fault, like how tall or short they are, their race, their looks, etc. I'm not doing that. If I sit on the couch all day and watch TV all day and eat fattening food all day, I can't claim bigotry when the USAF kicks me out for not being able to pass the physical training test. However, if I broke my leg and couldn't run, they would help me regain my strength (assuming it wasn't due to my negligence) or else they'd give me disability. Make no mistake: until proven otherwise, being gay is a conscious choice.

[SpiderVenom]

I'm sure most people here know that I'm a fundamentalist Christian nut.

However, I don't buy that in every case, homosexuality is a conscious choice. Who I'm attracted to is not a conscious choice, and I don't think homosexuals can necessarily choose to not be attracted to the same gender.

However - how the attraction is dealt with is most certainly a conscious choice.

[JB_From_Hell]

bigotist

Ok, no offense, but "bigotist" isn't a word.

Make no mistake: until proven otherwise, being gay is a conscious choice.

That's a brilliant deduction.

What if I flipped that statement around and said, "Until proven otherwise, being gay is NOT a choice"?

[neosadist]

Ok, no offense, but "bigotist" isn't a word. That's a brilliant deduction. What if I flipped that statement around and said, "Until proven otherwise, being gay is NOT a choice"?

That's sort of sad. "Oops, I accidentally ... Ooops! Sorry.... Oh krap, you see that?" </family_guy>

Sorry, but this thread seems to have decayed into a pissing contest, and this thread is filling with excriment.

[big_black]

No, I'm saying it in the sense that an altered mind might be leading to an alternative lifestyle. I'm not saying that they all need to be institutionalized for being different.

However, back to the comment about choices. My comment back when was to the point of someone made it sound like gays had no choice in the matter: they were going to be gay and there's nothing they could do to prevent it. I say it's bull. All human beings are born with a choice. To not have the capacity to control one's self and/or to choose is usually a common trait of mental disorders (i.e. that's one way to view them). Syzophrenia is the lack of the ability to maintain perception in reality, or you could think of it like that. Paranoia is the lack of the ability to see things for how they are without reading into them, etc.

I'm not saying being homosexual is a mental disorder. What I'm saying, however, is that being gay is a lifestyle choice: a conscious choice. To say that how they act is not their choice, i.e. they can't choose anything but that, is to say they lack the ability to control themselves. What I'm saying is that I have respect for the gay couple that admits that they chose to be gay. I have no respect for someone who blames genetics. Like I said, either you were born normal with the ability to choose, and your actions are your responsibility, or you lack the ability to choose and you shouldn't be considered sane. I can't just go to work and do what I want and blame genetics for my lack of self-control (unless I truly have psychological problems, etc). The same applies to life: I can't neglect my kid and blame my genetics, for example. I can't cheat on my wife and blame it on genetics. I can't be gay and blame genetics. And if I was gay (which I'm not, but for the sake of argument...) I would come out and own up to it, not say it's genetics or I was born with it.

When did you choose to have dark hair / like to eat chocolate / like to play the guitar / be attracted primarily to brunettes / ... ?

[JB_From_Hell]

That's sort of sad. "Oops, I accidentally ... Ooops! Sorry.... Oh krap, you see that?" </family_guy>

Sorry, but this thread seems to have decayed into a pissing contest, and this thread is filling with excriment.

The first line doesn't even make sense..... and you pretty much just proved how much attention you've actually been paying. It's been a pissing contest for quite some time.

[neosadist]

When did you choose to have dark hair / like to eat chocolate / like to play the guitar / be attracted primarily to brunettes / ... ? .

I never chose my hair color (duh).
I tried chocolate and liked it, evidentally.
I tried playing guitar and liked playing, and I was also born with enough musical talent that all it took was practice mostly.
Being attracted primarily to brunettes could be because of your first encounter, or could be because you're subconsciously wanting someone similar to your mother (but that's more a question for psychology than for us here on the forum).

Please, stop with the pissing contest around here. I'm already soaking wet.

[big_black]

I never chose my hair color (duh).
I tried chocolate and liked it, evidentally.
I tried playing guitar and liked playing, and I was also born with enough musical talent that all it took was practice mostly.
Being attracted primarily to brunettes could be because of your first encounter, or could be because you're subconsciously wanting someone similar to your mother (but that's more a question for psychology than for us here on the forum).

Please, stop with the pissing contest around here. I'm already soaking wet.

So basically, you don't know.

I'm just trying to figure out where you get these off-the-wall theories from, because they have no basis in science or reality.

[SpiderVenom]

I tried playing guitar and liked playing, and I was also born with enough musical talent that all it took was practice mostly.

That statement really annoys me. You do realize that by that statement, the majority of the earth's population is born with "enough musical talent"? Most people can learn to play the guitar.

Skills are learned. Of course, some of us may have better or faster response times, or be a little quicker at learning certain types of things than others. But in reality, the level of skill we achieve as guitarists has far more to do with our motivation, our interest level, and our enthusiasm and temperament, than some elusive, innate quality called "talent." It’s practice that gives a guitarist good technique.

[big_black]

That statement really annoys me. You do realize that by that statement, the majority of the earth's population is born with "enough musical talent"? Most people can learn to play the guitar.

Probably with enough practice...but beleive it or not, most people don't like playing guitar enough to get to the point of being able to play a power chord.

Why do we all like to play? Where do we get or preferences of enjoyment from? Is it something you are choosing, or do you just like to do it?

[neosadist]

That statement really annoys me. You do realize that by that statement, the majority of the earth's population is born with "enough musical talent"? Most people can learn to play the guitar.

True. Most can. I didn't say "well", I said "learn", i.e. chords and basic strumming. There are a lot more musically talented people than we tend to think, in my opinion. I mean, even then, for every 1 band that makes it there are like 100 wanna-be's. You don't honestly think that musical talent is that rare, do you?

[JB_From_Hell]

That statement really annoys me. You do realize that by that statement, the majority of the earth's population is born with "enough musical talent"? Most people can learn to play the guitar.

That is kind of funny.... "all it took was practice".... What does everybody else do? Sell their soul?

[JB_From_Hell]

Why do we all like to play?

It's a slippery slope to mind-boggling conversations like this one

Seriously, though.... why? Why do hunters like killing stuff? Who knows....

Could be drugs.

[SpiderVenom]

Probably with enough practice...but beleive it or not, most people don't like playing guitar enough to get to the point of being able to play a power chord.

Why do we all like to play? Where do we get or preferences of enjoyment from? Is it something you are choosing, or do you just like to do it?

Your point is correct, but the quote I gave under that statement already makes it. I intended the argument to be over talent, not motivation.

[Willis]

I tried chocolate and liked it, evidentally.
I tried playing guitar and liked playing, and I was also born with enough musical talent that all it took was practice mostly.

Did you consciously choose to like these things? Trying chocolate and liking it is quite different from trying chocolate and making a choice to like it.

[big_black]

Your point is correct, but the quote I gave under that statement already makes it. I intended the argument to be over talent, not motivation.

The comment was not directed at you. I just used it to make a point...hopefully he got it.

[JB_From_Hell]

Did you consciously choose to like these things? Trying chocolate and liking it is quite different from trying chocolate and making a choice to like it.

Looks like somebody's bladder wasn't quite empty....

(cool avatar, btw)

[SpiderVenom]

The comment was not directed at you. I just used it to make a point...hopefully he got it.

Sorry... been sick for a few days now, and I'm a bit slow on things

[SpiderVenom]

True. Most can. I didn't say "well", I said "learn", i.e. chords and basic strumming. There are a lot more musically talented people than we tend to think, in my opinion. I mean, even then, for every 1 band that makes it there are like 100 wanna-be's. You don't honestly think that musical talent is that rare, do you?

I think you misinterpreted me a little. My opinion is that talent doesn't play a major part in developing skill and ability.