Warren Buffett donates to the Gates foundation.

[neosadist]

*sigh* Please don't pretend to understand genetics. I've had next to no instruction in it, and still saw enough incorrect statements in the above post that I lost count. For instance, people can be carriers of Gene X, and bear no symptoms whatsoever of having that gene. Wanna know what "former" gays and lesbians are? People who have been brainwashed into being ashamed of themselves by people like you.

First, this is a study that I'm paraphrasing. It's based on a common misconception. DNA isn't going to have a gene for whether or not you like fish or hamburger. It's a genetic code for how your body is to construct or reconstruct itself.

As for "former" gays and lesbians, no. This was from a study totally independent of religion.

[neosadist]

I'm not saying that I would take my kids to a gay pride parade, and I obviously didn't say I let them watch porn. However, I think teaching them to be judgemental is a horrible abuse. My kids are going to be free to go to church if they so choose, but I am NOT going to allow some guy with a chip on his shoulder and some extreme sexual insecurity to instill prejudice into them.

Teaching them to be judgmental? Dude, you're desperate for something bad to say about me. Grow up. I've researched all this stuff with an open mind years before having this discussion. But now that you see the end result (having a solid opinion) rather than me searching, you think I'm judgmental and closed minded. That is not the case. And this is not prejudice or sexual insecurity. Once again, you're desparately reaching for something to say about me because you have nothing left. Why not just stop trying to say something bad about me?

And honestly it's your job to raise your kids, not mine. I don't know why you are being defensive, but you have nothing to fear. Relax.

[neosadist]

Why doesn't the argument go like this: Religion is old, archaic, illogical and pathetic. Marriage is a product of religion. Religion should be throw out, and therefore, marriage should be thrown out as well. Why not put a ban on marriage? Religion is as old as the hills, marriage is as old as the hills. We don't need to continue this old practices do we? I just thought this might be an interesting twist for the "discussion". Have a nice and friendly Saturday.

So you're going to base your arguments on insults rather than fact now that your "facts" disappeared? I think that's just wrong. So you can't convince me, instead you insult me? Please.

Just because a practice is old doesn't mean it should be thrown away. For example, natural child birth is an "old" practice, but ironically there's always the story that someone didn't make it to the hospital and yet "old" mother nature took over and the birth was a success. Just because something is old doesn't mean it's broken.

And even then, you'll never be able to prove that something is illogical if it's not proveable. Religion and evolution are both a faith: no scientific methodical proof exists for either, so both require a mental leap of faith. People align themselves with one of those two based on what makes them happiest, not which one makes more sense in the strict scientific method.

[neosadist]

Do you seriously believe that there is more crime today than in the 1940s solely because prayer was removed from schools and evolution was taught in schools? Do you really think those are the only factors that have changed in those 60 years?

No, I don't believe those are the only factors, but they definitely contributed in my opinion.

[neosadist]

No no no no wrong
By your logic, this would be true
If having blonde hair was genetic, it would have the same percent world-wide. Therefore we can conclude that people from Asia choose to have dark hair and having blonde hair is not genetic.

In the case of hair color, that's been polarized by race and country. Sort of like dog breeding (although we're not dogs): all of a certain type stick together, eventually their physical characteristics become blended into one type. Nothing wrong with it. But in the case of a gay gene, that can't be segregated like race and countries have already been. Therefore, if we're to assume that it's genetic, it should be around the same percentage worldwide. Yet it's not. To say it's genetic but NOT the same rough percentage worldwide is to say that gayness depends on race somehow, which also sounds wrong.

Bottom line, I'm not anti-gay or a racist. I believe in letting people do what they do. Legislating religion is not a good thing in my opinion. But I'm not going to let someone say homosexuality is genetic because it's illogical.

[neosadist]

That is a bad comparison. A better comparison would be to compare a Jesus fish to a rainbow or a pink triangle. Comparing porn to a Jesus fish is like comparing a rainbow to Jesus porn.

I was making the point that gay pride celebrations border on, and cross over into, live pornography. That would scar young kids' minds. But going to a nativity scene or a passion week play, I doubt that would.

[neosadist]

I'm sure we're all aware that sexual formation comes from more than just genetics.We have the Spartans for whom sex with women was considered necessary for creating offspring, but for whom sex with younger men and boys was considered the ideal pleasurable form of sex.

When I was in Kuwait serving my country, we had restroom janitors from Bangledesh. Not to say anything evil about their country, but to them I guess it's ok for them to be gay. They literally said that to them, men are for pleasure, women for children. Some of them eventually got kicked off base for spooning during their lunch hour. But anyways, I can see part of it being culture, because culture is an influence on its society.

[JB_From_Hell]

But I'm not going to let someone say homosexuality is genetic because it's illogical.

But believing that people choose a lifestyle that will be endless oppression and persecution is logical?

[JB_From_Hell]

Teaching them to be judgmental? Dude, you're desperate for something bad to say about me. Grow up. I've researched all this stuff with an open mind years before having this discussion. But now that you see the end result (having a solid opinion) rather than me searching, you think I'm judgmental and closed minded. That is not the case. And this is not prejudice or sexual insecurity. Once again, you're desparately reaching for something to say about me because you have nothing left. Why not just stop trying to say something bad about me?

And honestly it's your job to raise your kids, not mine. I don't know why you are being defensive, but you have nothing to fear. Relax.

Don't tell me to grow up. I'm not desperately searching for anything. What I see is someone determining what is or is not acceptable for someone else to do based on their sexual orientation. By definition, that's descrimination.

I'm not trying to say something bad about you. You are completely inconsequential in this discussion, as you could be anybody in the world saying the things you are saying, and I'd be saying the exact same thing. Trust me.... go look for posts where anybody is trying to push unfounded beliefs on anybody else.

All in all, this is getting boring, so here was my bottom line throughout the entire thing.... Neither of the opinions we're saying are provable. I'll admit mine is based on belief, and not fact. You, however, utterly refuse to admit yours is anything but cold hard fact.

[neosadist]

But believing that people choose a lifestyle that will be endless oppression and persecution is logical?

Dude, people do all kinds of things that defy being normal. I don't think in the USA that people care that much about being normal more than they care about doing what they want to do and what feels good. And if being told that what they're doing is sin is persecution, they're wimps. Granted, I believe no one should have to put up with violence or being hated. That's one thing. But just because what they're doing is unpopular they want to complain? Please. I know people who have been "different" all their lives and they don't complain. Maybe we should send some gay people to a nursing home or a school for mentally retarded children. They'll realize how normal and lucky they are.

Besides, those with genetic disabilities usually don't complain much: they suck it up and do their best. I don't see those with "genetic" gayness doing that.

[neosadist]

What I see is someone determining what is or is not acceptable for someone else to do based on their sexual orientation. By definition, that's descrimination.<SNIP> You, however, utterly refuse to admit yours is anything but cold hard fact.

First, I'm not discriminating. There's no choice being made. Sure, if I was HIRING someone I'd be discriminating, but I'm only talking. We should fear a society where people are not allowed to speak freely more than one where they can.

And it's discrimation based on our definition of it somewhere in some legal precedence. But should a church not hire someone because they're gay, is that discrimination? That's like saying America's Top Model discriminates against fat women. That's like saying American Idol discriminates against people who can't sing. So what if I try to get hired working for the ACLU but they fire me when they discover I'm religious? :P

When it's discrimination to not hire someone based on a CHOICE they made, something that's not genetic, there's a problem with society that needs to be fixed.

[neosadist]

Dude, Neo. Cool it man. Please don't speak for God or other Christians like myself. You're theory's have enough holes to strain pasta with.
I've got my own veiws on the subject. You've got yours. They've got there's. Get over it.

I never said I represent Christendom. I have just as much right to speak as anyone else. If you don't like it, that's what the ignore list is for.

[Skarekrough]

Third, if it was genetic, why does homosexuality flourish in some cultures and in others it almost doesn't exist?

...because some cultures have evolved to teach and understand tolerance and respect for others even if they're not like you.

It's a shocking concept I know....

[newking70]

...because some cultures have evolved to teach and understand tolerance and respect for others even if they're not like you.

It's a shocking concept I know....

yea, i think stalin and mao ran similar things called re-education camps

[JB_From_Hell]

First, I'm not discriminating. There's no choice being made. Sure, if I was HIRING someone I'd be discriminating, but I'm only talking. We should fear a society where people are not allowed to speak freely more than one where they can.

And it's discrimation based on our definition of it somewhere in some legal precedence. But should a church not hire someone because they're gay, is that discrimination? That's like saying America's Top Model discriminates against fat women. That's like saying American Idol discriminates against people who can't sing. So what if I try to get hired working for the ACLU but they fire me when they discover I'm religious? :P

When it's discrimination to not hire someone based on a CHOICE they made, something that's not genetic, there's a problem with society that needs to be fixed.

Why is it that you keep ducking the question/comment about how you have absolutely no proof whatsoever that being gay is a choice? If you simply overlooked it before, here it is again:

I am admitting, my belief that being gay is NOT a choice may not be 100% true. I'm sure there are some people out there who choose to be. How is it that I'm not totally sure? Because I'm not gay.

Now.... How are you so damned sure it's a choice?

[Animal]

I'm sure there are some people out there who choose to be.

Yep, there certainly are people out there who choose do that but it doesn't take away that there are people who are born that way. Let's not also forget that people would choose to be bisexual out of curiousity and others who are naturally bi. It's a lot more complex than just choosing to be gay or not.

I say it comes down to mostly genetics, a bit of environment, and choice/curiousity in small amount of cases. I find it hard to believe that someone would become an openly gay individual by sheer choice. The "true" homosexuals are more than likely to be born that way. If someone is making a choice, then they're probably just a part-time bisexual who doesn't even want to get "married" to a person of the same gender anyways.

[Animal]

No, they just don't.

You see, you haven't even made the choice. You're hard-wired in the brain to find women attractive but not men. The argument "well guys don't do it for me" only personafies to us that you have no say in it.

I didn't make the choice to be left-handed. I was born that way. My mother is left handed. See the connection? I could use my right hand for writing but it just does not feel right.

Speaking of left-handness, I've heard about left-handed school kids in the past being smacked with a ruler on their left back hand for writing left-handed. School kids have even had their left hand tied to their desk so they would forced to write with their right hand. They were regarded as sinister. Of course it doesn't happen these days but it makes you look back at how stupid it was to discriminate against people who were wired to naturally do things against the norm.

[FretFire]

I'm absolutely dumbfounded and somewhat disappointed by this thread. I've never seen so many pages get absolutely nothing accomplished. Why don't you all just break out the rulers and get this over with? Why hasn't this been locked yet?

[Skarekrough]

yea, i think stalin and mao ran similar things called re-education camps

If you're giving our government the benifit of having as much of a master plan as Stalin or Mao then I think you're giving them WAY too much credit!

[User_name]

I think it's learned. I had a socially class and the text book mentioned a group in Papua New Guinea (not all of Papua New Guinea is like this, there is a lot of diverse groups there) where the entire village practices it and don't allow straight relationships 2/3 of the year. On the other hand there is some groups that think that kissing between any kind of couple is super nasty and don't do it. Hope my 2 cents didn't offend anyone.