Warren Buffett donates to the Gates foundation.

[neosadist]

that's just silly
statistically? you're kidding, right?

He's not. Obviously you're making several assumptions. Let me assume what those are:
1) Christianity is always unpopular.
2) We never live by the principles we were raised by.

Is this accurate? Tell me, what's driving your assumption that the majority of kids do not grow up to hold the same views?

[Jonny R]

i see you didnt address my specific point about the saved orphan who lives another decade or so only to sow more evil ...

t4d

I wonder if we can easily head back down the road of eugenics with this one. And I don't mean policies invented by a guy named Eugene.

[Jonny R]

Those who are not vigilante will wake up one day and find that the tools with which they once could be are no longer available.

...and I liked the free to brew bit!

I like www.thefire.org

[neosadist]

No, it just makes you a step away from mandating a federal religion....a gap that gets closer every day without you realizing it. A majority isn't evil by nature...just those of it that do all they can to make the place unlivable and intolerable for those of other religions. Whether it's putting the Ten Commandments in a Court House or *****ing around the holidays when someone not of your faith should have the audacity to speak up about a display on a town common or putting millions into faith-based initiatives that do more harm then good....

No, you aren't seeing the point. In public schools, for example, every other religion (buddhism, etc, sp?) gets "their day" for people to be "enlightened" to that view. However, heaven help the person caught reading a Bible (since everyone who does is a Christian, they assume) or praying (again...) in a public school. I remember when a principle in Arkansas had a group of teens praying around the flag pole arrested.

And sure, let me take my own medicine: that was the past. Can't fix it. But I'm getting sick of the anti-whatever-you-don't-like attitude in here. It's one thing to say you're not into it. Sure, I can respect that. I can't respect the off-handed smears that people try so hard to inject into the threads here.

Let's try this: if you want to smear people about their religion, do it in a private message to them. Otherwise, this thread was about ... drum roll ... "Re: Warren Buffett donates to the Gates foundation."

[Luke Duke]

I wonder if we can easily head back down the road of eugenics with this one. And I don't mean policies invented by a guy named Eugene.

Yeah...I remember that....then Khan took over most of Asia and Europe, but he was banished and escaped on the sleeper ship Botany Bay where he stayed in stasis.....goodness that must have been....1996 or so...has it been so long?

[HamerPlyr]

I'm just amazed that the dude made that much money from parrotheads and "Margaritaville" and all that crap.

[ratherdashing]

I'm just amazed that the dude made that much money from parrotheads and "Margaritaville" and all that crap.

All posts in the thread except this one should be deleted!

[neosadist]

Whether it's putting the Ten Commandments in a Court House or *****ing around the holidays when someone not of your faith should have the audacity to speak up about a display on a town common or putting millions into faith-based initiatives that do more harm then good....

Well let's put it this way: this was a courthouse. If they want the Bible or Ten Commandments posted, it's just as much their right as for some other court to put up an Evolutionary time chart and other such stuff. Both are faith-based religions because neither can be scientifically proven. Either that or let's take them all down. We want equality.

But then again, I could find tons of quotes by our founding fathers that we could use to show that they really did care about such "religion" things.

And the holidays is another. It's state governments being sued because they had a nativity scene up and someone was offended. That's childish. Now should they not want some, let them be civilized and draw up an amendment or some proposal. But the state just wanted something festive for the holiday.

And even then, it's CHRISTmas after all.... Let's take away all the religious observances as state paid holidays and watch people complain. They want their holiday but they don't want to remember where it came from. But hey, if fair is fair, no Easter (Catholic holiday), no Christmas, no Halloween (druidic/pagan), no Ramadan (Islamic), and no Thanksgiving (since they prayed at the first one it must be religious), no Hanukka (Jewish). I appreciate having some of those as military holidays.

I would bet some people on here don't really comprehend what they are asking if we remove God from all facets of our government. We'd also have to pay to redesign our currency, and we'd have to actually doctor historical records and documents. How about our Declaration of Independence that says "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." But if there's no religion in Government, we can't have that phrase. It's pretty obvious that the founders thought that God was the One who said that men should have rights ("unalienable"-- can't take them from us).

Find some more. And find "separation of church and state" in the Constitution. It's not in there. It's unconstitutional.

[Jonny R]

I remember a several years ago when that SwissAir flight went down in the Atlantic just off Newfoundland. One of the evening news programs did a story of one the men that died. I don’t recall his name. But, his story was an impressive resume. He went to Ivy League colleges and Harvard medical school. With those qualifications he could have established a nice comfy occupation in the US. But, instead he worked for the UN and worked with the aids patients in Africa. He chose to work with the dirty, impoverish, malnourished, homeless, widows, and orphans. Apparently, he had a heart to do something and meet the needs of those who were suffering and those really had nothing that they could offer him in return. Except for a smile and a sincere thank you.

There are many stories like this. Of course, Mother Theresa is a famous one, but in terms of people I personally know:

My friend is a nurse in a home for kids with HIV, in Thailand. Think almost 'hospice for children'. In Thailand these kids are unwanted because they are bad karma under their Buddhist beliefs. The home is funded by private foreign donations, and corporate donations, and staffed by volunteer workers, sponsored by people from where they originate. The girl for whom the home was originally started had fully blown AIDS at age 2 or 3, and is now a happy, healthy looking 13 year old who enjoys going to school. The home is constantly growing as there are many children that are affected in this way.

Another friend of mine was a double-Olympic US volleyball rep (incl winner of a Gold medal), and a commercial property developer. He is now working in developing housing and hospital care for the poor in the Philippines, where his father has run a non-profit NGO for the past twenty or so years,

Yet another friend of mine is a builder who left New Zealand in a time of booming business and went to Africa, where he builds hospital clinics etc.

Another two friends of mine work on Mercy Ships, that dock in ports in third world nations and provide medical care to as many as they are able to help. Both left really good nursing jobs here, in a sought after location.

One of my best friends left a good publishing job here to work with kids in Thailand. He's now marrying the first friend I mentioned.

I have another friend who works with an organisation that recently rebuilt mosques - despite being a Christian organisation - in a muslim area of a country they work in. They did it because the lives of the poor in that conflict ravaged area of the country needed rebuilding. They only talk to them about God if they are asked, following the work they do. Actions speak.

These are just a few of the ones I personally know. Not to mention ones that have since passed on. I know their hearts, and they're driven by compassion and love.

[neosadist]

When people are being voted into power who are actively seeking to deny Civil Rights and otherwise discriminate...and are doing so under the guise of religion..well...that doesn't really help your case much. I'm not suggesting we are on the verge of a State religion, just that it's pretty clear the two (government and religion) cannot mix. Our Founding Fathers made that clear. It's still apparently true today.

Ok, who's tying to deny people's civil rights? Who's trying to discriminte? Prove it so that the rest of us can spread this information so that these said evil people won't get voted into office. Don't just "well some people...". Being a responsible citizen means being informed and informing others also.

[HamerPlyr]

I just thought that you boys might benefit from a little bit of levity.

[Skarekrough]

No, you aren't seeing the point. In public schools, for example, every other religion (buddhism, etc, sp?) gets "their day" for people to be "enlightened" to that view. However, heaven help the person caught reading a Bible (since everyone who does is a Christian, they assume) or praying (again...) in a public school. I remember when a principle in Arkansas had a group of teens praying around the flag pole arrested.

Funny....where I grew up there was no religion in public school. They adhered to the whole idea of "Separation of Church and State." No religion had its day. Maybe it was just an examplary school, maybe they just realized that if it was important enough then the parents would provide for their kids in that manner.

If during your moment of silence in the morning you wanted to pray then you were welcome to. If during your moment of silence you wanted to think about what you probably forgot to study last night for the Algebra exam then you were welcome to. If during your moment of silence you wanted to think about the rack on the chick three seats up from you then you were welcome to.

Otherwise, this thread was about ... drum roll ... "Re: Warren Buffett donates to the Gates foundation."

I find it amusing that you're so interested in getting back to the roots of the thread when others seem to be lining up and successfully taking your ass to the intellectual, historical and spiritual cleaners.

[neosadist]

In response to your sig, that wouldn't work, obviously. However, I don't think it's a religious dispute over marriage (and gays), it's a social dispute. Legally married means we go to someone in government to have it certified. They can define it how they wish. However, my desire is that it doesn't change from what God wanted in the first place. I can't really be socially active on that one because it's how society wants it, and you can't legislate morality any more than you can give people common sense.

[Skarekrough]

Ok, who's tying to deny people's civil rights? Who's trying to discriminte? Prove it so that the rest of us can spread this information so that these said evil people won't get voted into office. Don't just "well some people...". Being a responsible citizen means being informed and informing others also.

...the representative from somewhere near P-Town would like to motion to the representative to somewhere near Miami Beach that he might be better served reading the newspapers now and again.

Seriously? You missed the threesome on the cover of TIME?

[neosadist]

no, i do not believe that such a small 'good' outweighs the bad - and the point of the futility of merely delaying the typically inevitable remains .. sure, there are no doubt some cases of individual people saved by missionaries who have grown old living happy healthy spiritual lives ... there is no way that this is the case for the overwhelming majority of 'clients' served by the missions (secular or faith based) then we could get into the notion of the 'bandaid being mistaken for a cure' ... no stephen, i do not believe that external meddling in africa has had a net positive effect on africans for anything other than short-lived superficial effects no, sorry - i am not familiar with it

First, that's just your opinion. Second, I think I would take being raised in a religious home, or athiestic home, over no home at all (i.e. being an orphan). The military has recently trained its people on how to tell if there's human trafficking going on (i.e. slavery). It was said that most human trafficking victims (i.e. sex slaves, mail order brides, etc) were in a bad situation like poverty and orphanism and were exploited based on this to become slaves. So, I'd rather be raised by an athiest than become a sex slave somewhere.

[Jonny R]

You missed the threesome on the cover of TIME?

Man, I never thought to see a threesome on the cover of TIME. What has that magazine become? Do they have Page 3 girls too?

[Skarekrough]

Man, I never thought to see a threesome on the cover of TIME. What has that magazine become? Do they have Page 3 girls too?

If Bill hand't of gotten married or Bono been as busy as he'd been that year I could of called it a Gruesome Twosome.

.....but my post just came off as dirty...and now I feel dirty...and the Beaver thread isn't helping me any.

[neosadist]

ok - let's see how this adds up for you instead: keep doing the same thing we've been doing and expect the results to somehow improve AND ignore the slaughter / displacement of millions because it isnt in 'our national interest' AND pour billions of dollars into a known broken system where the money is used more often then not to hurt the people it is intended to help at the hands of their own government yeah - that sounds like a better recipe

No, let's:
1) Assume all missionaries are evil.
2) Assume that missionaries caused these problems in the past, ignoring history to the contrary.
3) Assume that our methods haven't changed.
4) Assume that we're ignoring the slaughter.
5) Assume that everyone wants this fixed and forcefully take it from their federal income tax as an increase just to send aid to a country that the populace is already sending aid to.
6) Assume that the system is broken despite historical evidence that suggests that it's not the system but the subjects that are at fault.
7) Assume that just because the system isn't what we want, it's hurting others, despite historical evidence showing that the subjects of this aid have been hurting themselves.
8) Ignore all the infighting and civil wars and attempted Communist dominations of countries. Most this guerilla warfar was invented by people who at the time thought Communism was better than their current government, and rather than be socially active and working to repair their current system, they sought to take over forcefully. Tell me how many people have died in the name of Communism: the Gulag Archipelligo and other social atrocities have already exceeded the religious body count of all time.

Do I have you right? I'm trying to show you your own logic, not be cruel or rude to you.

[Rainmaker]

AAAAAARGH. DO SOME OF YOU TALK THIS MUCH IN REAL LIFE?

oops. didn't mean to shout. sorry

[neosadist]

i more agree with you than disagree on this, skarey ... but this is the point where i get stuck as i ponder ... are we sure that there is a strong, sustainable, national / cultural ethos (for lack of a better word) in sub saharan africa *TO* sustain the things that 'we' might leave behind ...

I think they do. They have brains, they can be taught, they are human beings equal to all of us. They have the land to farm and the resources to mine. There are so many success stories in history that fly in the face of thinking these nations can't bring themselves out of these problems. Taiwan made something of itself as those who didn't want to become Communists left China. Taiwan isn self-sustaining, and more. There are nations that have learned how to farm in the desert. Israel, despite being under constant attack, much less the constant racism against the Jews throughout all of history, is more than self-sustaining and self-protecting.

Then let's talk about how Russia and Syria were constantly selling Iraq more weapons than they could afford, putting the country into debt, when they historically what these weapons would be used for and that they'd probably get destroyed as a result.

Then let's talk about how Russia forced Communism on everyone around them and became the USSR. Let's talk about the Gulag Archipelligo.

The bottom line is that the history of all human kind is marred by so much pain and suffering. There are few that are making a difference, and most of these people go underappreciated and unnoticed: missionaries and other aid workers. Let's not forget that many people with great abilities to help, such as construction workers, engineers, and doctors, in the past made their way into countries as missionaries. Even then, you know nothing of the life of a missionary: more time is spent on helping others (without much or any thanks) than on "making them believe what we do".