Question:

[neosadist]

....and who said living together is just about sex? Living together is all about living together....it's about knowing that person on a level and in a manner that dating and living in different places doesn't even come close to being. ...and for the record my sex life when I was dating was MUCH more active than when I started living with my wife.

Well what I'm saying is, I guess living together, but usually that means sex. Not saying that's what you meant, just making a general statement. Anyways, if you can do the living together part without ANY sex before marriage, I tip my hat to you. But if you can, sure. Still, do we put ourselves in a compromising situation for that? Last time I checked, psychology tells us that sex creates an emotional and physical bond with the person. I would think we should be careful about who we share that with.

Beyond that, I've made enough mistakes to know that sex before marriage is the wrong thing, even if the Bible itself didn't say that. Sure, I know, I'm a religious nut, etc, but I still think that sex before marriage is wrong.

Some people cite divorce rates, but I would think that the number of dumped boyfriend/girlfriend relationships due to living together complicating things would be higher. There's not really any way to prove that though....

[User_name]

Interesting story, one of my friends never dated his wife nor had any kind of romantic relationship with her. They knew each other very well though. One day he decided to ask her to marry him and she said yes right on the spot without hesitation. They've been married 20 years and have 5 kids. Didn't mean to hijack a thread, just wanted to share that.

[Luís]

I did mention the sex factor was not to be included.

[neosadist]

I did mention the sex factor was not to be included.

Well you ARE touching her boobie.....
(avatar)

[Skarekrough]

Well what I'm saying is, I guess living together, but usually that means sex. Not saying that's what you meant, just making a general statement. Anyways, if you can do the living together part without ANY sex before marriage, I tip my hat to you. But if you can, sure. Still, do we put ourselves in a compromising situation for that? Last time I checked, psychology tells us that sex creates an emotional and physical bond with the person. I would think we should be careful about who we share that with.

...and for some sex is just a physical act. I don't care what psychology tells you, I know plenty of folks who have had sex merely for the pleasure of having sex.

If we were always looking to create a bond and have intimacy then masturbation wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it is.

Sometimes...my friend...it's just "maintenance."

Some people cite divorce rates, but I would think that the number of dumped boyfriend/girlfriend relationships due to living together complicating things would be higher. There's not really any way to prove that though....

Actually, I would think that living together would give persons more incentive to work things out rather than just walking away. I mean, you've actually got to physically move your stuff, find a new place, and if things are messy you're going to inevitably find your guitars on the lawn when you get home....

....there may be a story in there somewhere. But past that I think you're forgetting how the stigma of divorce is wearing off. It no longer brands those that have them as a "failure", just someone with whom a relationship they thought would be for life didn't work out.

We all make life decisions that didnt work out......

[ratherdashing]

Last time I checked, psychology tells us that sex creates an emotional and physical bond with the person. I would think we should be careful about who we share that with.

Can you cite a source for this claim please? I'm not buying it.

Sex is whatever you want it to be. If you want a close, intimate level of contact that will create a bond, that's what you'll get. If you want a quick and dirty release, that's what you'll get. If you have preconceptions about what sex is and what you should expect from it, they will color your experience.

[neosadist]

Researchers from Pennsylvania State University find “it has been consistently shown that, compared to spouses who did not cohabit, spouses who cohabit before marriage have higher rates of marital separation and divorce.” Sociologists at the University of Wisconsin-Madison report, “Recent national studies in Canada, Sweden, and the United States found that cohabitation increased, rather than decreased, the risk of marital dissolution.” This was also found to be true in the Netherlands.

Sources:
-- Catherine Cohan and Stacey Kleinbaum, “Toward a Greater Understanding of the Cohabitation Effect: Premarital Cohabitation and Marital Communication,” Journal of Marriage and Family 64 (2002): 180-192.
-- Elizabeth Thomson and Ugo Colella, “Cohabitation and Marital Stability: Quality or Commitment?” Journal of Marriage and the Family, 54 (1992): 259-267.
-- James Q. Wilson, The Marriage Problem, (New York: Harper Collins, 2002), p. 5.

[Mike M.]

I know of two couples who lived with each other before they got married. 8 and 10 years. The 8 year couple divorced after 2 years of marriage. The 10 year couple had two kids and divorced after 5 years of marriage. My ex-wife and I did'nt live with each other prior to getting married and got divorced 10 years later. No guarantees with anything in life.

[Jonny R]

Sex has been so demonized by some aspects of our society it is really disappointing. Sex has been turned into this evil thing, when really it is one of the most natural aspects of our existence. But that's a subject for another discussion.

That's sad. Glad I've never seen it that way...or know anyone who sees it that way.

I'm sure there is plenty of evidence to support either side. We are talking about individuals and chemistry here. I don't think that there is any study out there that could predict across the board with any sort of accuracy which decision will yeild the best results for individuals. It is a purely person decision.

Definitely, a trend can't predict with any certainty an individual case.

Generally the evidence points to lower divorce rates amongst non-cohabiting couples, but that's no guarantee of an individual case on either side of the fence.

Sex is whatever you want it to be. If you want a close, intimate level of contact that will create a bond, that's what you'll get. If you want a quick and dirty release, that's what you'll get.

You don't think that sex is inately bound up with people's emotions? Interesting...

Gearjoneser's perspective on the pr0n industry is always interesting on this kinda topic.

But I just don't generally see that much evidence of the what you're saying...in people all around me, in all of life I've seen, nor in any reading...

Even in the guys I know who fit the perfect profile of a player...

[LesStrat]

I'd like to read the research that supports cohabitation prior to marriage. I haven't seen it yet.

BTW, sex outside of marriage is called "fornication." And yes, it is prohibited in Scripture.

(the above was a clarification of an earlier point...there is no reason to get into a discussion about the various sins, ALL of which are equal, and only one of which is unforgiveable).

Luis, do you really believe that a couple can cohabitate WITHOUT sex entering the picture? That seems rather naive.

[Jeff_H]

Researchers from Pennsylvania State University find “it has been consistently shown that, compared to spouses who did not cohabit, spouses who cohabit before marriage have higher rates of marital separation and divorce.” Sociologists at the University of Wisconsin-Madison report, “Recent national studies in Canada, Sweden, and the United States found that cohabitation increased, rather than decreased, the risk of marital dissolution.” This was also found to be true in the Netherlands.

Sources:
-- Catherine Cohan and Stacey Kleinbaum, “Toward a Greater Understanding of the Cohabitation Effect: Premarital Cohabitation and Marital Communication,” Journal of Marriage and Family 64 (2002): 180-192.
-- Elizabeth Thomson and Ugo Colella, “Cohabitation and Marital Stability: Quality or Commitment?” Journal of Marriage and the Family, 54 (1992): 259-267.
-- James Q. Wilson, The Marriage Problem, (New York: Harper Collins, 2002), p. 5.

Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania, in cooperation with a joint residency study conducted by the Universities of New Hampshire and Boston (respectively) have concluded that the actual validity of any results derived from such "studies", regardless of race, religion, gender, country of origin or sexual preference (with an exception noted to those attracted to barnyard animals) is to be considered highly predudicial and the cooresponding validy of said "study" should be weighed directly to the agenda of the source, group, special interest or other such organization responsible for the funding of the "research".

In other words, "blah blah blah blah blah"

[big_black]

Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania, in cooperation with a joint residency study conducted by the Universities of New Hampshire and Boston (respectively) have concluded that the actual validity of any results derived from such "studies", regardless of race, religion, gender, country of origin or sexual preference (with an exception noted to those attracted to barnyard animals) is to be considered highly predudicial and the cooresponding validy of said "study" should be weighed directly to the agenda of the source, group, special interest or other such organization responsible for the funding of the "research".

In other words, "blah blah blah blah blah"

[JB_From_Hell]

I always figured the "people who live together first are more likely to get divorced" statistic was crap. My guess was that it was weighted, because of couples' who's religous beliefs forbade divorce.

As far as the original question, I couldn't imagine marrying someone without living together first, and truth be told, I think you're nuts for not sleeping with them first, too. Anybody with more than a few notches on the bedpost can't tell me there wasn't at least one who you got along with well enough, but the 'tween-the-sheets chemistry was nonexistent.

[LesStrat]

Again, I'd like to read the evidence.

[Skarekrough]

Again, I'd like to read the evidence.

It just seems dubious coming from someone willing to cite family.org as a credible locale for unbiased information.

He also didn't cite where it came from, but the references. I'd be interested in seeing it as a whole and how it stands up to scrutiny.

I'd have to have balls the size of Poodles to cite PETA as a credible source for animal welfare. As it is I'm almost sheepish to cite CNN and NPR some days just for the knee-jerk reaction, and those are typically unbiased sources!

[JB_From_Hell]

It just seems dubious coming from someone willing to cite family.org as a credible locale for unbiased information.

Good lord, how cynical do you have to be to not trust something with as wholesome a name as family.org for unbiased info?

[Skarekrough]

Good lord, how cynical do you have to be to not trust something with as wholesome a name as family.org for unbiased info?

And can you believe that there are no Amazons at amazon.com?

This internet sucks!

[big_black]

James Dobson.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Not exactly an impartial source.

[JB_From_Hell]

And can you believe that there are no Amazons at amazon.com?

This internet sucks!

Sons. Of. *****es.

[Skarekrough]

James Dobson.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Not exactly an impartial source.

*snort*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dobson

This was the dude with the SpongeBob SquarePants being gay thing.

Thought I recognized the name.